Author and Founder of “Love Does,” Bob Goff sits with the 10000 MINUTES Trio to talk about childhood narratives and the ways they follow us into adulthood, the need for more empathy, and the importance of being curious about people’s stories before making assumptions. Tangent included: a Scottish cow named Pluto… Practice: Stay Curious With Each Other
The 10000 MINUTES Podcast is a weekly deep dive into the adventures and struggles of living out our daily lives WITH Jesus, not for Him. Also, we like to laugh. A lot. Maybe too much.. Ok, maybe too much.
Episode Summary:
Author and Founder of “Love Does,” Bob Goff sits with the 10000 MINUTES Trio to talk about childhood narratives and the ways they follow us into adulthood, the need for more empathy, and the importance of being curious about people’s stories before making assumptions. Tangent included: a Scottish cow named Pluto…
Practice: Stay Curious With Each Other
If you’ve found this or another practice helpful, let us know at mail@10000minutes.com and we might include your story in a future episode!
Show Notes:
Book: https://www.bobgoff.com/shop
Vineyard: https://www.oakscenter.com
Love Does Org: https://lovedoes.org
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I think it's the difference between bouncers and greeters. Right? I I'm not there to tell people who doesn't get in. I'm just saying grace draws a circle around everybody. Wow. And I just assume they're in. Now the theology behind that, uh, some people could talk about that, but why don't I make the safe assumption that Grace is drawing a circle around everybody.
Hey everybody, welcome to the 10,000 Minute podcast. My name's Tim Timmons. We've got Chris Cleveland, Emmoe Doniz. Hello. And uh, today we've got a very special guest.
It's like your dad. If, if he wasn't, like, if you told me he was, I'd be so I wouldn't be surprised. , please
Did how we look.
It's, I think it's all of the things.
I don't think Bob and I look alike at all.
Mainly personality. .
That's true. Kindred spirits.
Yep. Yeah. Well, I, that's a high compliment. You're welcome. And I will, I will to him take that to him. It's a high compliment to Bob. So Bob's, that was our heart. You're welcome. , um, everybody. We have Bob Goff, the one and only Bob Goff on the podcast today. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . And Bob has been a really good friend. And I think when you think of these people who are really influential and like a big deal, he's an older guy, he's got kids and yet he's still will text me and encourage me out of nowhere. I'm like, bro, we haven't talked in a little bit and you're just hitting me up for no apparent reason. Like, you have no reason to do that. Yeah. But I think he does that with so many people and it's so, it's just so beautiful.
Right.
So anyways, we have a great interview with him. Um, and let's just get right to it.
Woo,
You everybody, welcome to the 10,000 Minute podcast. Uh, my name is Tim Timmons. We've got Chris Cleveland over here, yo of Stars. Go. Dim. I get to see Chris on a lot because we're on tour together. Not even enough. We have two more dates. That's all we do.
We have two
More. And then, and then he was just in London. Bob, we're Bob and I hung out last. Oof. So anyway, I don't wanna bring her. That's true. Uh, and then we've got a Mo Denise over here to my right.
Hello. Hi everybody.
And, uh, we've got quite a guest today. Mm-hmm. , um, I was trying to think of another name other than Bob Goff. Like that would be kind of funny. , but nothing really came out. And I, I told a bunch of friends today that I got to get to hang out with you today and they're like, what? Oh my gosh. And you could ask 'em this, all this stuff. So I'm not gonna ask any other questions cuz most 'em are stupid. But we're all very excited for you to be on this, Bob. Yes.
Oh, me too. Honored to be with you
Guys. Oh, yeah. I didn't even introduce you. Bob Goff. Everybody
. Woo. Exciting.
Uh, Bob, I tell a story about you every night on the road.
Every night. Every
Night. You're
That
He
Does. Yeah. It's mostly making fun of you. But No, it's, it's it, I talked about it on your podcast when you had me on yours, but when we were at the lodge together, so Bob's got this place that, um, is now new, newly redone after the fire. But Bob brought up, you know, I don't know how many of us, there were 15 of us, something like that. And all of us, we, we had Bob's kids are there, his family's there. It was so beautiful. And we hung out for, you know, I don't know, five days. And our lives were changed. I mean, literally Michael W. Smith was there. We were singing friends or friends forever, . And, and like, it was like, do you remember that moment? A video of it? And we're like, all tears going, this is actually for real in this moment. Cause we just, we shared so much together.
But then at the end we were all kind of, uh, huddled around in this, in this like circle. And Bob, you just sat there and you were looking at all of us and you just said, you guys, thank you for loving my kids so well this week. Mm. Yeah. You know, and just as, as a dad, I'm like, oh my gosh, anytime people love my kids, well, we're done. Like it success is, has just been had. But at the end of that, you kind of like, you almost got a little teary and you said, you know what? It's almost like what the father probably feels every time we love his kids. And I think he's saying to us every time we love somebody, our neighbor or enemy is God. Or like the father's saying, thank you for loving my kids. Mm-hmm. and that Yeah.
That particularly the kid that's having some trouble. Like if you had one of your kids and they were having a difficulty, they were struggling with math or they were struggling with a bad attitude or Yeah. They were struggling with insecurity. That somebody that took a moment and got down on a knee and actually spoke to them as if they didn't have insecurities. And Yeah. Uh, treated them with honor and respect. And I just really think that parallels some of this idea of like, uh, loving people the way Jesus said too.
So good. Well, that was really shaping for me. I mean, just that moment and just how you love as almost a father to so many of us. Truly. I mean, you're a father or grandfather or now great-grandfather, really. I mean, I think you're
great comma grandfather. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Yeah.
. I wanna do a really good job of being a grandfather.
Yeah, I know you do. I know you do. Um, well, so everybody, if you don't know Bob Goff, um, you gotta figure your life out. Wake up. Yeah. Wake, wake up a little bit. And you know, Bob, I know you'd hate that statement, but it's just kind of true. . Um, the things that you are inviting this, uh, these generations into are so above all of the, uh, partisan lines and the religious lines, you kind of seem to just kind of hover above all those places in such a beautiful way when you could literally have people that are extremists on every side. And somehow by the end of your session with them, they're, we're all like best friends. Uh, h h how do you do that? And has that always been part of your deal? Might
Be, uh, I'm still trying to live into that. Um, uh, but, and I think we're all making steady progress in that direction. I'm really hopeful for our society, for communities that we're moving in that direction. Um, but it's having a, a new take on it. Um, we have this property out outside of San Diego. It used to be an old young life camp. And so we, with some buddies, we changed that into a place that's people come hang out. And I've been, um, stalking with cattle and I don't have cattle, but we get those fuzzy cattles, those, uh, Scottish Highlands. What's
They hang? I don't know what you mean. Oh, so they're they're just, they're actual cows.
Yeah. Yeah. But they're like fuzzy cows. Cows. You can look up Scott Highlands change
Your life. You brush 'em, you don't get milk. All these things. Do you get milk? Can you milk them?
Yeah. Well the bowls are a little tougher. But the
Chris
What? Talking about
I'm from Oklahoma dog.
The whole idea with these Scottish highlands is they like, they look like an ewok got together with a cow . So they're like, but this, uh, cow that we just got, his name is Pluto and he's, he's getting out of the trailer. He came in on, he is like poking everybody. He is like Rema. He didn't mean anything bad for that. The guy that raised him said, Pluto doesn't know his horns. And I'm like, uh oh, that'll preach. Mm. He just Pluto, his horns are above and behind his eyes, so he doesn't know he is got horns and they're three feet long on each side. And so, oh my gosh. Sometimes a perspective, if somebody's a little prickly to just say he doesn't know his horns, like he just doesn't know that he's poking everybody. Mm-hmm. Every time he says something or the paraphernalia that he wears to communicate an idea. And most of this for me at least, has, it's like Genesis, it's origins and security. So when I don't know my horns, it's usually just cuz I'm insecure and so I'll do something lame and it's up to be mean. I'm just insecure. Mm-hmm. . So some people get funny when they're insecure and other people get mean like a rattlesnake when they get insecure. Yeah. Uh, I get funny.
What, can you give an example of yourself? I mean, I, you just are a, he such a hero to me and you're a friend, which is so stupid I that I even get to call you friend just cause I I'm such, you're such a, a hero for me. So thank you. But in that, where, where do you see yourself having horns that you're like, sometimes I just don't see these horns.
Yeah. Sometimes it, for me it'll be impatience cuz I'm like, I make coffee nervous. I'm just like, just, I, I really wanna be making moves. Yeah. I'm really mindful we get about 27,373 days, give or take, you know, more if you eat broccoli, unless if you eat Pop-Tarts. But with this time that I have, it's 63. There's just not a lot of distance between here to the goal line. Yeah. And so what I wanna do is not get distracted and not be impatient with people. So let people be wildly inefficient. Uh, and so I'm practicing. I look for an opportunity. Uh, I got picked up in Seattle to go somewhere and the person I, I've worked in Seattle and commuted for 27 years from San Diego, so I know how to get from the airport to Seattle. Right, right. Uh, and the person picking me up for this gathering, they got on the highway going the wrong direction towards Tacoma .
And I noticed immediately, but I just didn't feel like I needed to say anything. And we had just the most pleasant conversation and you know, after a half an hour, 45 minutes as we're passing the Tacoma Dome , no. He said, oh wait, I can't believe I made the thing. And, uh, just to not make a big deal about it wasn't a gotcha. It wasn't anything. It was a great opportunity, uh, for me, uh, to just chill out a little bit. Uh, so was that a practice? Yeah. Yeah, it's practice. So if you have like in a marriage or in your relationship with your kids or to just be wildly inefficient in the way that you deal with one another. Um, so I was in Montgomery yesterday and I'm here now and, uh, so there's just something wildly inefficient about that and getting on a plane to go to like Orlando the next day and then come back and they fly to Atlanta.
So efficient would be to stay there and go from place to place. Wildly inefficient would be to run home. So I think if we could think about that. Oh, and I've got another inefficiency, Marie and I never talk about where I am. Isn't that great? Uh, we just say we don't wanna be partners, uh, in this thing. We don't wanna be business partners or travel agents. Yeah. So we talk about how I am not where I am. So that would be like a strategic move to say, let's talk more about what's going on in my heart than what's going on with my baggage. So I've got like a mood ring. Mm-hmm. , see that bad boy? Mm-hmm. , I bought one for four bucks. So she'll just ask me what colors your ring? And like, oh, it's purple with a little black. And she's like, what does that mean? Yeah. I'm like, oh, I'm talking to an old friend in two new ones. Wow. So wouldn't that be great? So that kind of being like kind of aware of what's going on around you and aware of what's going on within you, like, oh, this is little frightened Bobby Goff who's insecure right now. And so he thinks he has to be funny all the time and actually don't need to be. Yeah.
Mm-hmm. , have you always been that way or did you learn to become that? Or was it a bunch of practices that you put in place to get to that point or Yeah. Give us Bob Goff at 23.
Yeah. Yeah. So Bob Goff at uh, some of the through line would be the same fun guys, super energetic and all that. But, um, I think Bob Goff at 23 was, uh, didn't have any friends. Really had acquaintances, but not any friends. And um, and then if I were to pull on that thread and say, what is that connected to? Which is a great thing for each of us to do, not to get mired in introspection, but to find a wide spot in the road and say, I wonder what that's connected to. Um, when I was young, as with all of us, we had had some crazy stuff happen. And so then you'll make up a story. Uh, it isn't true oftentimes, but you'll make up a story to understand your life. And the story I made up is, everyone's gonna leave me. And that didn't make me a victim, it just made me a confused eight year old kid.
Mm-hmm. kinda like if you got lost at the Disneyland, you'd be like, oh my gosh, that realization. Yeah. I'm all alone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, there are a lot of people around, but you're not with who you thought you were with. Yeah. Right. And so, uh, I made up the story, everyone will leave me and then what I did is I made up a rule and the rule is don't go deep with anybody. Why? Because the story is everyone's gonna leave you. Yeah. And so now I'm 23 and I'm a fun guy, uh, but I don't have any friends because the rule, while it was like scaffolding for my, uh, life at eight Yeah. It became like prison walls at 23. Wow. And that's why I never went out on a date or I never went wherever it bec why they'll leave me. And so isn't that interesting? So the happy-go-lucky, super fun guy, like whatever, like that, they're underneath that kind of like, we used to call them Russian nesting doll. Now I call them Ukrainian nesting dolls. Sweet, sweet. But as you start peeling away, the thing is an underlying belief that everyone will leave. And I think by maybe 25 or 26 I started rewriting that story to say that isn't true. I don't know if it was ever true, but it certainly isn't true now. Um, and I think that's like a really good, uh, dive to take with yourself.
Hmm. Did somebody help you with that? Was there, was there a realization? Did you hit a wall? Are you just looking at your life going, gosh, I don't have deep relationships.
Yeah. Like, uh, by then I was graduating from law school, I met Maria. Yeah. I'm like, you know, that's the one for me. But then realizing man, I need to redefined some things in my life to really show up Yeah. For this relationship. Cuz I wasn't half the guy she needed. Um, so I thought, but I liked her enough for both of us . So, so, but I thought sometimes when you meet somebody you could just like, kind of up your game, but not up your fake, but just actually increase your game like to mm-hmm. say, what's going on? What's that connected to? And what can I do about it? And at 63 I'm still doing that. I've had some help from some friends that you guys are all aware about it on site, but there's like, they don't have a corner on it. There's lots of people there to help to just go and say like, oh wow.
Wonder what that is. To just kind of to say, why are you doing what you're doing? It's a great reason to ask. Oh, uh, great example. Like, I've stopped speaking places, so we just like burned the ships. We just said, we just said, if I had said I'll be there, then I'll still be there. But we took the tab off the webpage, I want to be a great grandfather. Right. I won't be at 63, I'm not gonna be old enough for my grandkids to have kids. Yeah. Uh, but I've done the math. Uh, but I could be a great comma grandfather. Yeah. Um, so that means just being present and, uh, getting a couple cattle and then maybe invite people to come hang out with me instead of me going to all these places to be with other people. Yeah. So it's a, it's whimsy, but it's a strategic whimsy. I think that's what might be an idea for all of us to say, still be the fanciful wonderful, unique creation of God that you are, but be strategic about it, but be strategic enough that you're not being efficient in the way that you love people. Uh, Bob,
I want to, we're in this season of 10,000 minutes, you know, it's all about, there are 10,080 minutes in a week. 80 of those minutes are spending some gathering maybe if you know of just Jesus people in a home or maybe a building or whatever, or coffee shop. Um, but there are 10,000 other minutes in what's it look like for us to join Jesus in those 10,000 minutes, um, and just practice his waste and love people well in those 10,000 minutes. But one of the things that you do really well, and I I'm just, it's more curiosity than like, Hey man, let's, let's have this cool conversation. But the thing that you hold really well is this, this, um, there's striving, right? Because you get a lot of crap done, Bob. I mean, and you always have, you just, I mean, there are 4,000 things if you look at your list, you know, if I just actually read off all the things that you're involved with and you've got, you're like, uh, you have a consulate, what are you called it? Ugandan. Ugandan. Oh,
The consul general for Uganda. Yeah.
You got, he's got papers basically crazy. It's crazy that he can walk in. This
Means I get outta speeding tickets because I've diplomatic immunity. It's
So awesome. But I mean, Bob is just everywhere on the whole planet. So it's, there's most, to most people that would be like an element of striving. So there's striving then there's versus doing versus trusting God in things. And I'm trying to just see like, how does your view of joining Jesus, because you seem to join him everywhere you are.
Yeah.
And I'm trying to figure out
What's endeavoring to do that,
To strive, cuz have you have, have you fallen into striving in your life, like really trying to make things happen when it was like, oh, I, this is more me doing something. How, how do, how does all of that fall on you?
Yeah. So, uh, for a day job, I was a trial lawyer for 30 years. Yeah. And, uh, and so it was definitely ambitious. I was working hard. I just have a fear of failure. And that's what you want. Ps you want your lawyer to have a fear of failure.
Noted. Noted.
Yeah. So, um, so I had that like healthy, I think level of fear of failing. So I worked really hard at that. Um, but I think I had this awareness that while this was a day job and it's a pretty good day job, that there was more. And so, um, the striving can sometimes be, if you pull on the thread and say, what is that connecting to? Like, do you wanna be, uh, like looking for validation from other people? Yeah. So I re recognize in my life we started this nonprofit and then I said the name of the nonprofit and said, you know, uh, saving a generation of Ugandans or educating Yeah. A generation of Ugandans and there's 42 million people in Uganda and I had like nine kids and three pigs . And so I'm just that is hardly a generation of Ugandans, but it, I made me pause to say, why did I feel like I needed to overstate that?
Uh, and it wasn't because I wanted people to think I'm a swell guy, although I do. Um, it was really that I wanted people to know that was worthwhile. I wasn't trying to pump myself up as doing something noble. I wanted them to know this really mattered. So, um, I'm trying to find less bravado ways to say this really matters. Like, it can just matter because it matters, not because a number of people agree with you that it matters. Hmm. So I think that's that idea that Jesus said if you stood at a, a corner and made a big deal about everything, you'll get a little golf clap here. Uh, but if you shut up about it, you'll actually hear about it in heaven forever. So what I'm trying to do is just not, um, use a lot of big words to describe important small steps.
Um, so, but I'm definitely active. Like if there's something that could happen, if we can move the needle in somebody's life, I'm like, I'm in. Um, and then I, I'm big on sitting across the table with people. Um, so we're doing something in Eastern Europe. And so I went over to sit across the table to let him know like, this is God's money and I'm an easy guy to get along with, but I'm pretty hard to screw with . Mm-hmm. . So don't do that. Like, this is God's money and we need to really make sure that this thing happens. So let's just set up a couple way points to make sure that we're all on track. And so I think you can have ambition and organization without being heavy handed. Yeah. Um, you just, and it just falls under the heading of clarity. Um, be clear about yourself.
Like why am I insecure and motives what's prompting me? Yeah. Uh, and then be more generous with other people about what their motives that you might not understand are. Um, that's where it's a little bit harder when somebody does something kind of wonky. I came outta my, um, uh, downstairs to put on the coffee, uh, at probably four or five in the morning. And I look out my window and there's a dude like sitting on my back porch. Uh, and uh, I'm not suggesting that somebody else ought to do that. Yeah. Um, and so I I was, I opened the door, I'm like, oh, hi. Like, I'm Bob. Uh, and he said, you can always tell somebody is a stalker cuz they'll say, he said, I'm not a stalker. perfect. Yeah. I'm thinking all evidence to the contrary. Yeah. Yeah. Nailed it. And he said, I, I had read something in your book and I I, and I just wanted to experience what it was like to be on your back porch .
I'm like, buddy, you're gonna experience a restraining order. Yes, yes, yes. But, um, but instead of making it feel small, I just said, Hey, you could understand how, how concerning would be, uh, for somebody. I'm a pretty nice guy, but it's just like, kind of like a time and place and method. Yeah. I think he's just working out his people skills a little bit. Yeah. Um, so instead of catastrophizing and saying, oh my gosh, and then casting a broad net to say people aren't safe, some of the stories that we make up because we encounter somebody who's working out some stuff in their life, we then cast this really broad net into say, Christians aren't safe, or people aren't safe, or insert here whatever story. And I think it's just worth hovering over that that's what God did when he created something. I would hover over what you just created a false narrative. Mm-hmm. a new rule in your life. It isn't worth keeping. I'm just that kind of introspection's really good. I would write it down. I have a bias towards that. Um, and I think more than anything, I'm just curious if I could do my Jedi move over our faith and non-faith communities, I'd just say get more curious.
Okay. So, so talk about that. That was the other thing that I wanted to lean into. So there's this idea of striving versus trusting. Like what's the difference between those two? We can keep talking about that, but also your curiosity is so contagious, but that scares a lot of people. And what, why does, why does curiosity scare, and I'll just talk about that a religious community which we are both a part of in, in some way. Why does that scare religious people so much to just be, stay curious.
Yeah. I think sometimes people, uh, they're were super well intentioned. That's my first assumption. Mm. They don't like me. They don't always pull that off. Well. Um, but uh, they don't wanna do this, this thing where they feel like they need to step in to give you a word of correction about that. And I've always just perceived myself more, uh, like a base coast than an empire. Like I'm not the guy calling balls and strikes on everybody. Mm-hmm. Like I just say, like, run your race. That's Hebrews 12 one and I'm a bible verse guy. Like, uh, I, I just don't put bible verses in my books cuz I'm not writing books for a second year seminary student. I'm writing for the guy at the tire store. Yeah. So when I'm curious about things as I would communicate, I could have a lot of things going on in my thought bubble. Um, I just don't let them out of my thought bubble . So if somebody says something kinda lame. Yeah. And if somebody says some lame o oftentimes I'll just think, oh, that got out of their thought bubble because it would've been better unsaid. So that's just a more generous way for me to think about it
Just staying cur. Well that's, so that's just staying curious with people that's
Like, yeah. Like I wonder where they came from. I wonder what the return address on that is. Mm-hmm. . So somebody will say something about theology or whatever, and as you know, I get quite a few phone calls, um, every day. And, uh, there was a woman they called actually a short time ago, and she, she said, hello, is this Bob? And I'm like, yeah, it's Bob here. And she said, the devil's in my bathroom and . I was thinking, you know, I had junior high school boys too. I know exactly how you feel. Yes. Um, yes, and, uh, so I resisted saying number one or number two. Right. But I said, do you, do you feel like the devil's actually in your bathroom or is it like a, you know, metaphor for something else? No, he's actually in my bathroom. And I, I said, who's your best friend?
And she said it was a woman named Mary. And I said, get call Mary up and have her come over so you're not all alone with that. Yeah. And then just give me a call later. Tell me how it turned out. And, uh, she called later, she said, Mary's over here, we're just calling to tell you devil's gone. I'm like, that's terrific . And so what if we just, instead of trying to figure out what are the bigger implications to just say, here's a person that evidently she had the phone number and we could offer something in a moment of need and the thing that we could offer is an advice. She didn't need a theology conversation. Yes. She needed her best friend. Mm-hmm. with her. So maybe, uh, reminding people like our role, uh, isn't to be the umpire, but just tap people on the shoulder. Do what Jesus did to Peter. He said, you're a rock. He didn't say you're a screw up and what's up with a rooster and all that. I've always thought, Jesus, the reason Peter denied Jesus three time is that, remember second, the second miracle Jesus did was to heal Ge Peter's mother-in-law. . I thought he just held a grudge. . Right.
But what I want us to do is the thing that there's something else going on here. And I think our goal, uh, in our faith communities would be to be very, just a really safe place. I want people to smell the cookies in the oven. Uh, I'm not gonna vet people coming in. And I'm so glad Jesus didn't vet the guys on the cross next to him Yeah. To say, what do you think about this social issue? And what's your position on that social issue? He just said, I'll see you in paradise. And so if somebody actually kind of gets in my grill a little bit Yeah, I'll just some I'll see you in paradise it, they it will totally escape them what I'm talking about. Right. But it's just like, I'm just, I'm not there to argue with people. Mm-hmm. And I'm a guy that wins arguments for a living 32 years of practicing law. I never lost a case. It's not, cuz I'm an awesome lawyer, I'm an awesome picker. I only pick cases that nobody
. Right, right, right. That's called wisdom.
That isn't going soft on doctrine, that's going big on Jesus.
Mm-hmm. . But, so, I mean, I could not agree more, but I, I just, there the, uh, gosh, so many thoughts. I mean, the religious side right now would, uh, uh, a religious culture right now would be very against this. It's like, no, we actually have to defend God. So I mean, there, there are so many things right now going on all the different levels and it really seems like there's a group of people going, Nope, I've gotta defend God. Because you're obviously not, you're actually going soft on theology and what God is telling us to do. So where, where do you go?
I'd like, uh, uh, that letter that Simon Peter wrote to his friends, um, it was called Second Peter. And uh, and he said, to make a defense for the hope that's within you. And a lot of people are really keen on doing that and being Jesus's lawyer. Um, uh, but then they stop reading there and it's, they miss the part that says, but to do it with kindness and respect. Mm. Um, and so I think sometimes people think that they're helping baby Jesus out. And if they read revelations, they'll find out he's out of the crib and he actually doesn't need my help. Uh, what he needs is me to treat people like they're actually God's creation. And I, uh, I understand. I automatically assume that God is doing the same thing in your three lives that he's doing in my life. And I need to pause and realize that he's actually doing different things in your life than he's doing in my life.
Doesn't mean that truth is variable, but I I'm thinking about Matthew five. It's just so you've heard it said, but now I say you've heard it said, but now I say heard it. I think eternity is gonna be filled with us re-understanding things that we thought we had nailed. Hmm. Um, I heard somebody else say, it wasn't me. They said there's two types of people, humble people and people that are about to be humble . And I just wanna be, uh, realizing I will certainly be the second. I want to be more of the first just be humble. And so if somebody's, uh, view of theology is different than me, it doesn't, uh, make me go get in their grill, it forces me back to the authoritative word of God. And I'm a really orthodox conservative guy in my, uh, in my theology and everything Yeah.
That I do. I just keep more stuff in my thought bubble. Um, I just, I, if somebody says something that strikes me is inconsistent with what I've understood, it drives me back to the scripture. It's kinda like what Paul said, like if, uh, and even Galatians one, six, like, if even an angel of heaven comes down and preaches a different gospel, like just get out of the room. So, but you won't know if it's a different one until you know the real one. And so I'm just trying to do that, but I'm not trying to beat people up. Uh, there was an l d s guy that called me right before this and he just wanted to tell me about this and that. And I was like, oh great. I hope you have a great week that just like, I, I just feel like people that we don't get along with here on heaven, Jesus is gonna make us roommates with in heaven uhhuh we'll be arguing about the top bunk for eternity. And so I just don't want to do that. I'm just trying to tend to my own fire.
So when people come at you and I know they have with their thoughts or like, why aren't you stronger on this point? Or why aren't you coming at these more, what, what's your response?
I don't know, man, sue me like, I
Dunno. .
Yeah. I think the whole idea is this. There was somebody that called, uh, after the most recent book came out and they said, are you watering down the gospel again? And I said, oh man, I hope so. Cuz I just want to make it for thirsty people. I would hang a salt look at the end of every pew . Uh, cause if you're not thirsty, you're gonna hate what I have to say. . Oh, you know, when camp food, uh, it always taste good even if you burn the bacon and the toast. Yeah. It just tastes good cuz you're together. That's ActX two and four. It means they broke bread together and they had things in common. Doesn't mean we have to agree on everything, but just the idea that we're at this campfire together, that's why camp food tastes good. I want like, our conversations to be like, camp food, it feels good, it tastes better because we're together. Mm-hmm.
. Oh wow. That's so hard for our culture right now. Mm-hmm. that is just not, I, I'm just, I can't, I keep coming back to this defending God. I just, I'm seeing it every day and I don't know, I don't know what to do about it to be honest. I mean, I just, I'm just seeing everybody trying to defend God so much. And I have such different thoughts on some of those things and I agree in some of the things that they're wanting to defend in some ways. But it's just the way that it happens. And I don't know what my role is in that other than just trying to love. And
I wanna, I think for me, I'm thinking how can I honor friendships and what would I be doing to betray friendships? Um, and so I think within our faith communities to speak well of each other at the city gates, um, to just say, uh, find good things to talk about. I think the times when I've felt the most deeply wounded is when I felt betrayed by a friend. Yeah. Um, that they said mean things, um, outside your presence. And the crazy thing about that is it's kinda like Amazon Prime. It's gonna end up on your doorstep within a couple hours. Yeah. Look, you're gonna hear about, I don't know what you're thinking Yep. That I could say something, uh, disparaging about Tim Timmons. Like that's gonna end up with you in really short order. That's how it works. Yeah. So knowing that that is, uh, that we have this air system that gets everything back to everybody right away, that what if we just speak well of each other, um, or shut up.
Yeah. Um, that doesn't mean that, uh, you're going light again on some, there's times where you have enough gravitas in a relationship that you could say, can you help me sort this one out? This is something that I've been trying to get my arms around and I'm I'm in my own life. Yeah. Um, so there's an easier way to like, it's the difference between merging with traffic and t-boned people. Um, like, uh, just merging moods. You start in the slow lane and you work your way left. And there's a lot of people that just t-bone everybody, they cut across the fast lane and there's just a bunch of carnage, there's bent metal everywhere. And then even when people have messed up either a big public failure or a bigger private failure, I just, I always felt like that's why people went to NASCAR races cuz they want to see them metal bent, get bent.
They don't wanna see anybody die, but they definitely, I mean, they can read tomorrow morning who won. The reason they're going there is they wanna say, what do they say when you're rubbing, you're racing. Uh, but they just wanna see some bent metal. And not to delight in that, uh, but to just grieve over that, not to pass that along. Yeah. When there's some bent metal in somebody's life. But to be a safe person, to be Switzerland, like gimme a borrow of chocolate and a bobsled. I wanna be that guy. I wanna be like just safe that you could come and deal with that. And then maybe I'll feel safe enough to kind of deal with my own stuff.
Bob, that really is who you are. I mean, you are the Switzerland if of my culture and everybody around me that it's just you, you would know that Bob would be the guy that you could go to with anything and you'd just kind of hold the space and go, okay, let's go. You wanna go get something to eat?
Which Yeah. Sometimes a really like deep theological moment would be let's go feed the cows. Uh, and then you don't have to say, you know, life is a lot like a cow . Just, just feed the cows. Just be the one safe place where they can have a release from all of the moments that have been surrounding them and that there's something that's holy stuff. If you need to slip outta your shoes to remind yourself that this is holy ground. Yeah. Don't make a big deal about it. Just slip outta your shoes. Yeah. Um, yeah, there's something really about that. So if you know why you're doing what you're doing, and then we have a right perspective. I'll give you an example. I've, I'm not a baseball guy even though we're this Red Sox hat, but, um, they, I, um, got invited. Do we have a major league baseball team here?
Evidently Who, who would know? Um, but they, they asked, would you throw the first pitch at this thing? And I thought that would be like such a fun thing to take the kids and go down. So then I asked him would it'd be okay if my son threw the first pitch? And they were super cool about it and he three hopped it to the plate. And Yeah. , I just thought he was throwing all strikes. You know, that's the way fathers see things. Um, but they gave us this big room with the, you know, glass on the edges and it was behind home plate somewhere. And they must have had a banquet set up for 40 people. And it was just me, three kids and sweet Maria. Perfect. And I actually am so committed to the proposition of never going to a baseball game that, uh, that I, uh, wanted to just go for the pre-game thing. And he threw the pitch. And, and then so we got to this big room with all this food in it, and I had this idea, let's go up into the nose fleet section and find somebody that got the $4 ticket, bring them down. And I just realized it would be kind of creepy to say, I've got this room. Right,
Right, right. Glass room. Yeah. Yeah.
Come and see my etchings. Yeah. Yeah. So I said, tell you what, I know this sounds a little creepy, uh, but we've got this place, it's got all this food in it. Yeah. And it's all yours. Uh, so what I'll, what if we do this, follow me down and uh, I'll go in the room and you can stand at the doorway and look in and decide if you think that's a safe place to go. Uh, but I can just tell you that there's a whole banquet in there if you want. But stand at the door and if it's a safe place you can enter in. And if it isn't, and when those people entered in, we went out and got some more and we went out and got some more. That's the church. We need to create a safe place where people could stand at the door, look in and decide if it's safe.
But there's a group of people on the inside trying to do what? Trying to hold the lines. It's like how many cookies you can have or
I I think it's the difference between bouncers and greeters. Right. I I'm not there to tell people who doesn't get in. I'm just saying grace draws a circle around everybody. Wow. And I just assume they're in. Now the theology behind that, some people could talk about that, but why don't I make the safe assumption that grace is drawing a circle around everybody and as they dive deeper into the scriptures, they can reach, uh, another conclusion about that. But for purposes of a greeter, a Disneyland, I'm taker. Yeah, yeah. I just wanna say welcome to the happiest place. Yes. On Earth. Earth, yes. Right now. But I'm not gonna be vetting people. I'm not. That is, and again, uh, all I'm a scriptures guide. Like I'm thinking about all the things that somebody that's getting angsty about this is thinking, yes, but what if I make an assumption, uh, that's, uh, like based in grace, like J Jesus came filled with grace and truth twice in the scriptures as described that way. And it's a hundred percent of both. But it isn't lost on me that grace comes first. And so I just wanna assume that this is a place where everybody is invited and I don't want to get, uh, way late in Romans about the elect and the this and that. Those are distractions. Do you think,
Do things like this get to your heart? It, it seems like you are kind of the, a duck, if you will. Like just water kind of hits it and just kind of rolls off when, uh, what, what things offend you?
Oh, I think that, I think that idea of, uh, somebody that isn't speaking well, not of just me, it isn't pretentious in that way, but of anybody. And I think everybody feels similarly about that. Yeah, you can, might agree if somebody's throw in, insert this person under the bus or that person. But subliminally, I just wonder if the subtitling is that, I wonder if I'll be next, you know, if this is oh my gosh, how they feel. So this is saying that that's fair game to talk about somebody. And so I've just tried to constantly just speak well of people and it isn't blowing a bunch of sunshine at 'em. It's just saying, you know what I want within community, my small contribution to be, to speak Well, and then if, uh, if somebody's hurt me, then to do that Matthew 18 thing to go to them or to offer at least to bring somebody with you.
And if they say no on those, then to say, I've kind of run the course, I'm not gonna tell it to the church. We don't need to have Yeah. That, but to just say like, Hey listen, I need to just uh, uh, just continue to like kind of guard my heart. Proverbs 4 23. So I'm big on knowing why I'm trying to do what I'm doing and I'm not good. I'm making it sound right now as I'm hearing myself. Like, I've got this nailed. And I don't, man, I'm on training wheels on this step, but I'm, uh, really purposeful in the direction I'm going. Yeah. I'm trying to vet my thoughts and to say I'm trying to get there. I'm not there yet, but I think the Anai and Safari story would've turned out different if an Anais who was way more generous than I'd ever been, uh, would say, I'm just not quite there. I think that would've turned out different. I think when Safira showed up, she wouldn't realize she's standing on plastic .
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I love that about you. Um, Bob, I wanna jump into just the oaks and the stuff that you're doing with, you know, all all that you're inviting people into create creative stuff. So my wife, we were talking to my wife yesterday, Hillary, who you know, um, and she was talking about how you inspire people to see life as a bucket of possibilities. Like that's just her read on you as a human. Like when we're, when I'm around you, when we're around you, we just feel like, oh, life is a bucket full of possibilities and you're always leading people into this stuff. So you're with your camp. So what have you learned about people and why is it hard for people to see beyond just our little minute microcosmic stories?
Yeah. I just think of my own insecurities that hold me back. Um, uh, a phrase that a lot of people are familiar with now is this limiting beliefs. Yeah. But if you just got super practical about that to say, like why not? What's the first reason that comes to mind about why not? Um, and so you can have,
So there's an idea, sorry. If if there's an idea that you have that you're like, oh gosh, this would be so great, but I can't do it because of X, Y, z. You're saying to ask the question, why
Not? Yeah. Let's talk about what X, y, and Z are. Let's just have the conversation either with yourself sometime of reflection or find a counselor to help you say like, let's talk about that. I'm not thinking about, uh, the reasons why. I'm just trying to think of like, uh, what do you want? Right. So I, even the pool of Bethesda, that story of the guy that Jesus says, do you wanna be well? And the guy responds to say, somebody always gets in the water before I do and gets healed. Yeah. And Jesus wasn't asking for an excuse, right? He was asking, what do you want ? So he asked, what do you want? And he got the excuse, like somebody that would be an example in the scriptures of a limiting belief. Um, so instead to just have a lot of clarity about what you want.
So I just decided, I found this place used to be a young life camp. They literally walked out, put it for sale sign on the side of the road, and uh, I think it went up for sale at one. And I bought it at two like, oh, we are, so I call got all the kids on the phone. I said, I've just given away your entire inheritance. Right. , get a job. Yeah. So, um, so we, uh, decided it would be a place where everybody could come, like Buddhist Baptist, everybody, the only people we said no to was a nudist colony. And I'm like, buddy, I just can't unsee that . We need to get a little cloth between your butt and my leather couch. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, if the overriding premises that everybody would be welcome here, and you just get better at what you ne to get better at, better at your marriage, deeper in your faith, like what, whatever it is, like, kind of get what you need. And the first thing we did, uh, when the VD happened is we put in a vineyard. Um, and so this vineyard has enough grapes. This is 50,000 bottles a year, God of grapes that come out of this vineyard. And I haven't had my second glass of wine ever . I had the first glass that didn't taste any good. Right. So I'm like, nah, that was in high school, I think. Yeah. That's, and so, yeah. So while I'm not a wine guy, hopefully
Someone else's
Quality, quality control idea, what I'm learning about vineyards Yeah. And growing and all the leafs are out there. Do you know what makes a vineyard? Uh, you could picture one in your mind that the leafs are really bright green and all that, but the ground is really parched. And you think, well, how, what, why are the leafs so green? It's because the roots go down 40 feet. Oh my God. Is that crazy? God? And so I'm like, that'll preach. Mm-hmm. . So I think I'm gonna get a world full of stories and analogies and all that out of somebody who doesn't know their horn shed and vineyards who have roots that are deep are, so my hope is people can get back to where their roots are.
Yes. Are you guys doing dry farming? Have you heard about that whole thing where it's, it's organic farming where you're actually not just drip farming, but dry farming? It sounds like that's probably what you have.
Cause Oh, I like that. So dry farming, like is there no water? We would be good at that. No,
No, no. You totally would be. No, it's, it's this idea where, you know, normal, uh, if you're trying to do like mass production, you're just kind of drip drip farming. And so the roots stay really, uh, shallow. And I just learned this Alan, uh, oh my gosh. Doesn't matter. Uh, anyways, uh, they sit really shallow, but when, when you, when you deep lee water the vineyards, this, that's when the roots go all the way like 40 feet down. That's just a different way of seeing how do we do that more in life?
Yeah. I just think of it under the category of curiosity to just decide, uh, if we said during this brief period of time we have here on earth to be just engaged in what's going on around us and yeah. Why are we doing what we're doing? Why are we thinking where those insecurities come from? So good. And then hopefully we can get outside ourselves and offer in other people. And instead of offering information to other people, do it as Philippians uh, two 20. It says that Paul's talking about Timothy said that guy Timothy expresses a genuine interest in the people around him. I don't have anybody like that guy. He shows a genuine interest in people. So maybe as you're curious about the, uh, vineyards and cows and music being made and all that to just show a genuine interest in other people I know about my story. Let's talk about yours. Mm. Um, that's where all the good stuff happens. And uh, this place is a place where I can just have people together, feed 'em some good food and just show an interest like care.
Well that sucked. Bob . Um, let's, let's do that whole thing over. That was really great. . Um, Bob, thank you so much. We're gonna hit you with just a few 10,000 thoughts real quick. It's just a little, you got, it's just quick round, so you gotta answer real quick. Bring
It. Okay. Lightning round, like speed dating. What? That would've been my whole junior high high school and college experience. speed. We've been over like that. I never went on one. Oh,
Right, right.
I asked plenty of times. There were just no takers.
Oh, . Well, I'm glad you got sweet Maria
With a face like this. Who could imagine. Totally.
I I didn't wanna say it. I didn't wanna say it. . Okay. Bob, get ready. Uh, first thing you do in the morning, go.
Oh, uh, sit in a chair. Light a fire. Hmm.
All right. You see that coming? No. How far away is the fire? Yeah. How close is the chair
To the fire? The chair. As matter of fact, when Lindsay, my daughter got engaged to the guy John that she married, uh, he built her two chairs because her memory of growing up was waking up and seeing Marie and I sitting by the fire every single morning. Oh my God. So yeah, that's one first thing every morning.
Well, that's too, we do that every day. Um, okay. Pet peeve. Go. Oh,
Uh, somebody that jiggles their legs, if you ever see me speaking,
Just do, it was an immediate stop.
I always have a music stand, but there's never any notes on it. And what I I, they're not the problem with the, I'm the guy with a peccadillo that's distracting to me. So I put the music stand in between me and whatever's distracting me. So if you ever see me speaking, I promise you, you'll see an old music stand, , and somebody's jiggling their leg in the first row. I put the music stand between me and whatever distracting that will pr that'll preach too. I
Love. Okay. Uh, favorite movie, book, or friend quote?
Oh, let's see. I'm thinking of something that I heard recently, uh, from, it was from Greg Boyle, um, a guy that does a bunch of amazing work in Los Angeles, and he said, uh, just because it works doesn't mean it'll help, but if it helps, it always works.
Ooh. Hmm. Okay. Uh, bucket list. I'm really curious about this one for you. Bucket list.
Yeah. I'm, I'm really keen we've got these fields out at the oaks. I wanna strap that propeller. Yeah. Uh, on my back with a para gliding Oh gosh. And just go cruising
Around there . Yeah.
If I crash and burn, that would be how I would wanna go. Just need something epic. I don't want get a bad cold and drift away. Yeah. Yeah. I wanna just go in a big epic. Something to do with a fireball.
Gosh. Can you imagine going over sunset cliffs with that? How
Cool that? Yes. Oh
My gosh.
Look at me. Yes, yes, yes. Call me.
Um, okay. The fifties, what does it go? The fifties?
Oh yeah. I would say, uh, being one year old.
, were you, what were you, 59? Is that your year?
Yeah, I'm 59.
. Thought I'd give it go as far back as I possibly could.
. So I'll just say being weaned
. Yes. Speaking of bulls,
This is like a war shock ink vo test. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Okay. Uh, what you wanted to be growing up. Oh.
Um, I think I wanted to be courageous. I think that was my thing. I wasn't thinking astronaut, fireman, it was just I wanted to be the courageous guy.
Hmm. Ooh. And I mean, even as a young dude.
Yeah, yeah. Even as a young person, I wanted to be courageous. I would think of things that would take some courage to do. I even, uh, having a, my first job was like a bicycle paper route. Yeah, right. It's before computers and all that. Yep. And so, uh, waking up at like four or five in the morning and riding your bike and then hearing cats fighting and all that was just like, I did that because it was like kind of creepy and I wanted it to be courageous. So.
Good. So good. Okay. Uh, last one. Hidden Talent.
Oh, I play, I know how to play the banjo. Ooh,
That makes a lot of sense. The real banjo.
Yeah, the real banjo. I don't do it because I, you know, it, it ain't a foggy mountain breakdown. Does not sound like what you think it sounds like. But I actually, I've got what? I play it every once in a while. Do
You really?
You Yeah, totally.
I want to hear that. I think we need to do a record. Come on that. Gosh. With Bob. Yeah.
We'll have to do that. I wanted, yeah. I'm recording some album that you do. Let me hit like three notes in the back. My gosh. That'll be the Easter three notes. Ooh.
Could we ever come out there and re record at the Oaks?
Let's see that. That'd be fun. That'd be a fun caper.
Oh my gosh.
.
Okay. Uh, do you guys have any other thoughts? I'm just learning Yeah, just soaking it. I'm just taking notes. Mm-hmm. , uh, Bob, thank you so much for your time.
Oh, this is so good. Thank you. And thanks for what you guys are doing. I know you're encouraging countless people and uh, and I just hope that maybe there's something that one of the three of you said that somebody will take some notes and to say, okay, what can I do about that? If you take agreeing with Jesus off the table, all you're left with is doing it or not doing it. And so sometimes when you, if maybe somebody was a wide spot in the road or went on a jog or something, listen, just say, so what's the do part? And isn't, cuz Jesus needs your help. Cuz I ask him every day if he needs mine and he tells me the same thing, no , but I'm gonna know more about him as I'm like actually experiencing that. So I actually do something about generosity or kindness or thought bubbles or whatever it is. But to actually say, okay, this is gonna be my bold move today.
Uh, I th you just answered my first question that I was between like, striving and doing. And I think it's, it's the heart that you're walking into the doing with mm-hmm. that makes it away from earning something from God. Cuz this gets into such the, the place of like, I'm trying to earn something for God, I'm doing this to earn for God or to actually just be with him.
Oh, you've got a, uh, song I've got on repeat from one of your early albums that I'm blanking on the name of it, but I listen to it every day. It's in my, like, this isn't a plug for you, but it's, um, uh, it's a song I listen to. I listened to my favorites every time. And, and it's a song that has not because we ought to, but because we're
Oh, that yes, that one We're all Praise you not cuz I have to not Oh, with that. Come on.
Yeah. Oh dude, I listen to that. Literally I can say every single day. Oh. Um, and there's something really beautiful about that. If you know why you're doing what you're doing, surround yourself by safe voices, voices that you trust, friends that you admire. And there's something beautiful, like, I think individually we're just posed, but all together we make one really well intentioned. Yes. So good high functioning person.
So good. Bob, thank you for your time and your heart and your friendship,
Really. Oh, thank you guys. Thanks. It makes a little time for me.
Okay. Bob Goff.
Robert.
Robert
Gerson.
Gerson
. Old Bobby.
Old Bobby. Wow. Uh, yeah. Do you have a name that you wanna give him?
Bob .
Okay. Goff. I, I don't
Think we asked him if, if it was Robert.
We didn't know. Don't think, I don't think I said three words in the whole thing because I was just like soaking in all the goodness. Yeah. It's like you just wanna shut up and listen to him talk. Yeah. The whole time. Yeah.
Yeah. He is just, dynamic is the wrong word. It's too small of a word. He just
Captive. He Yes. Whatever it
Is. That's, that's good. Yeah. He is, he is captivating. Captivating. He captivates the whole Yeah. Every part of the space. And
He's always just digesting something so he, he has an angle or an experience or a view of every topic you could think of. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. So there's just so much that we bounced off in this episode, which is exciting. Yeah.
Uh, I will say too though, that when, you know, we've been on a few cruises and different, different hangs with Bob and there are moments when we're just all eating, you know, this one time I was with Bono also, here we go. Okay. And he would just start asking you questions. Yeah. Uhhuh because he can just talk all day obviously. Yeah. But he would start asking my wife questions about her mm-hmm. and about my kids. And there's just something really beautiful about that. I love the bouncers versus greeters.
Yes. So good. And maybe sometimes we don't even realize when we are doing that with people. Yeah. But how different it would be every day that if we paused in certain situations with tension or different views that we think, am I being a bouncer or a greeter in this moment mm-hmm. . Yeah. Right. No, it was so good.
Yeah. And church people are really good at, we're really good at being bouncers.
Yes, we
Are are with judgment and with all the things. Even though I, I will have a smile on my face mm-hmm. and still in my heart have a bouncer mentality.
Yes.
And I don't love that and it's actually not beautiful. Right. That was, I loved that.
Yeah. And maybe that's uncomfortable to hear. Maybe you're like, no, I have a reason to guard what is good or whatever we think in the moment. But I mean, I think what Bob does so well is he reminds you the heart of Jesus and the heart of Jesus is to welcome people, welcome conversation, welcome freedom, all the things. And so when we start to cut off, so much is missed in the moment. Yeah. And so
I feel like didn't we even ask him like how do you respond to the criticism of that? Like, you're so happy, you're so this mm-hmm. and he said, well, sue me .
Yeah.
Right. Which I love cause he was a lawyer. Yeah.
It's like great deal with it. I love that
Perspective. Being more curious about your motives. Mm-hmm. , I think I could hear that every day. Yeah. I probably should just hear that every day. Mm-hmm. . Or maybe we need to start texting that to everybody. . Yeah. As a reminder of like, just being curious of what my motives are in this moment and
Or what it's like being on the other side of yourself. That's
What it is. It's not so much, uh, let's cleanse ourselves from bad motives. Right, right. Yeah. It's more of the why I think he said, where does, uh, return Ascender, where does that go to? Um, in in what's happening right now? He talks, he has a f a couple stories in here that instead of kind of being like, I don't really wanna be involved in what's happening right now, um, like with the guy like that shows up on at his porch or the lady with the devil in, in the bathroom. Right. You're like, I kind of dunno what to do here. He might not know either, but in the moment he said, I'm curious to see where is this coming from? And there was so much peace hearing someone no. Like, I don't know the resource, I don't know the thing you might need right now, but let's kind of connect and why, why is this happening right now? Why do you think this is, you know, necessary urgent? So it's less about shaming ourselves of having bad motives. Yeah, that's good. Learning more about why Yeah. I just wanna know why. Cause that's the core thing that God's always trying to connect us with, you know?
So good. Uh, I think we need to do something on curiosity. Yes. Uh, because I think, um, people, and I think a lot of times religious people are very Christian, people are very scared of curiosity. Yeah. Mm-hmm. because if we get curious about something, things
We don't know Yeah. And we're not certain
About can't control mm-hmm. , it might throw the whole, I mean it feels like it's gonna throw the baby out with a bath if we mm-hmm. get curious on something and we might disagree on something mm-hmm.
, Ooh. It might also just change our view and that's kind of scary. Yeah. Because sometimes we bank on things Yeah. And we build our life mm-hmm. around certain views or thoughts and what if, what if that's not really true anymore? What if that's something you don't need anymore?
Know let's, let's rethink curiosity. Let's do something
On that. Yeah, that'd be really good. Okay.
Hey, if you have also watch this transition , um, hey, if you guys have, this wasn't even planned, but I might just, it's as a real statement. If you have thoughts of things that you're trying to rethink or, uh, cuz repenting really means to rethink your thinking on something. So it doesn't mean we're throwing it all out, but like, we're just kind of going, huh. I'm, I'm curious what really is, you know, whatever we've, we've right done blessing and mm-hmm. , grace and neighbor and all that kind of thing. So if you guys have thoughts on things that you'd love to have discussed and uh, us to get like some experts on, let us know. And thank you for giving the 10,000 minutes. Uh, you can always do that just to keep what we're doing going cuz this is totally funded by 10,000 minutes and by you mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . So thank you. Go to 10,000 minutes.com and there's a thing that says donate or hugs, free hugs or
Something like that. And every, like, every comment, every share, all of that is still important as well. Um, so thank you guys for uh, participating in the conversation with us.
And if you guys give $1 million Oh, oh, Chris has agreed to cut his hair. I'll
Shave my head.
. So what'd you do that
If someone gave a million dollars,
What might you guys, let's go
shave your head but you have curly hair and it's great. And come back
Maybe
. Okay. .
All right guys, so we will be with you next time. So thanks for listening. Thanks for being a part of this. If you've made it this long, literally you are our new best friends, but thank you. Okay, bye.