10000 MINUTES

202: Carol Timmons on Gaslighting, Remorse and Learning Your Apology Language

Episode Summary

MFT Carol Timmons (a Season 1 favorite) joins us again to walk through the 5 languages of apology, true remorse vs gaslighting, and what agreeing to disagree can look like. Tangents included: what “running hot” actually means…  Practice: Learn your language of apology!

Episode Notes

The 10000 MINUTES Podcast is a weekly deep dive into the adventures and struggles of living out our daily lives WITH Jesus, not for Him. Also, we like to laugh. A lot. Maybe too much.. Ok, maybe too much.

Episode Summary:
MFT Carol Timmons (a Season 1 favorite) joins us again to walk through the 5 languages of apology, true remorse vs gaslighting, and what agreeing to disagree can look like. Tangents included: what “running hot” actually means… 
Practice: Learn your language of apology!

If you’ve found this practice or another practice helpful, let us know at mail@10000minutes.com and we might include your story in a future episode!

Next week, we continue to rethink forgiveness with Carol Timmons by learning the last 3 languages of apology. Get ready!

Show Notes:
“The 5 Apology Languages” by Gary Chapman and Jennifer Thomas
Apology Language quiz
Carol’s Notes

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Episode Transcription

We're bound to repair relationships that are important to us often. So if we can get good at it and have effective repair, then we're going to have better and better relationships. And that's where families get in trouble is when something happens and they don't know how to repair. They're afraid to repair, they don't repair well, we get a lumpy rug. And so everybody is constantly tripping over the lumpy rug. And they get to where many families, I've noticed, many families have so many lumpy rugs, they just keep pushing things down because they're afraid to confront

Everybody. Welcome to season two of the 10,000 Minute podcast. We made it and we made it. We made it. We've had many people saying, Hey, where's season two? Did we miss it? Yeah.

We just wanted you guys to build up anticipation.

Yeah, you want it. People have wanted it

Delayed gratification. Yeah, I learned that. We're

Doing this for you. We're doing this for you.

They taught that in Sesame Street.

They did with Tom Holland.

Tom Holland. How long?

No, no. Not Tom Holland. Watch Sesame. No, wait, wait, wait. Tom Hitton. It's like what? He's one the wrong one. Like Lokey. Yeah, Lokey. Totally. Which is why I watched Sesame anyways. But yes, he taught about the

Eight years old. That was amazing.

It's the lotions. No, you look great. But anyways, proceed. What are we talking about season two? Let's go two.

Okay. Season two, everybody. So today, oy. That's in Spanish.

Sure.

I'm kind of bilingual. Feels

More Italian

the way he said it. Oy. Yeah, I dunno.

Okay. So today or whenever you're listening to this or listening or watching this, this is tonight. This morning. If you're running, if you're walking, keep your eyes open. Don't close your eyes as you laugh when get to the room. So we have my mom again on. So she was kind of a highlight from last year, last season she talked about grief and we all still talk about her podcast, and the things she shared. So this time I said, mom, what do you wanna share with our people this time? So she said that she's been taking groups, she's a therapist, a shrink if you will. No, . She's a therapist and she takes groups through things and she's been taking groups through this book that Gary Chapman did on the Five Love Languages. But now it's a different book on the five apology languages, something like that. . And there's a little piece of paper which I can't show you because we'll put it in the show notes. Yeah.

So you

Check out show notes. You guys, this is really good. Yes, very good.

One

Important conversation,

Seeing that two, accepting responsibility, right?

Yeah. Yeah. And we're writing songs this whole time. I think

There's, we sing

So to this. Yeah.

Restitution. Yeah. It's gonna work out.

Yeah. We're rhymes with restitution

And

Still be good. Okay. Okay. Well I apologize to you who are listening. Yes. For Chris,

I'm a professional.

Yeah. So

It seems sincere.

So true. It was totally insincere. But you can make amends in my restitution. It's

Gonna

Be great. So we

May need a little more

Work here. Yeah. Okay. So check it out and we'll learn stuff after this.

Hey everyone, this is Moi. Each episode we're going to hear from listeners about the impact that practices like this one from episode one. Jesus, you have my attention have had in their life.

I love the 10,000 Minutes podcast. And these simple practices that y'all share, like Jesus, you have my attention. I've said that phrase, I can't even tell you how many times the past few years. And it's been so helpful because in the good times and the bad, I want to have my intent up for what God is doing. So Jesus, you have my attention when I say that, it just puts me into a really good head space. So thank you all so much for the work that you do. It has made a significant impact in my life.

If you found this bit or any other practice helpful, let us know by emailing mail 10,000 minutes.com and we might include your story in a future episode.

Okay,

Everybody. Hey everybody, welcome to the 10,000 Minute podcast. This is Tim Timmons. We've got Christopher Cleveland. That's

Right. Say your whole name. Your mother's

Here. Timothy Howard Timmons.

. No, please don't do full names. . Okay.

Oh yeah,

Yeah. Just you.

Just you Denise? Yeah, that's me,

IRA. Oh God.

And then today we've got special guest, Carol Timmons, this specialist. This is her everybody. And you've heard her before because she has one of the most listened to podcasts of ours. Yes,

Yes. It's the one I've listened to most.

Probably the most shared podcast was yours, mom. Yes. So just enjoy the fame of that. And people have been ranting your name everywhere, . But before we got into this, we were just sitting here and I just said, I'm hot, but I don't mean that I'm bragging everybody. That's not what I'm going for. I always run hot. And Chris said that's an age thing. And I'm gonna say I'm in my twenties right now. You

Look great. Your beard looks

Thinner, bro. I just trimmed it. Yeah, I did it because we did a Instagram live.

Yes.

The other day. We've been doing 'em on Friday. So if you guys wanna jump in, it's very fun. . But I got a lot of grief for how gnarly my beard was. Maybe it was my own grief

. I was like, I was gonna say they weren't coming yet you, but they were asking when, yeah, these videos were gonna come out and when were you gonna take

Care of it? Your mom did say let your hair grow. Last podcast. So

. , not that I don't wanna bring anything up, but on top of his head. Yes.

So the last podcast, everybody, I think we, we've referred to it a few times. What'd she say? I said, what is something you wanna change about me? Is that

Something like that? I can't remember. But it was gold.

And I said, let your hair

Grow. Let your hair grow.

So that's all you were trying to do.

I'm not But you don't remember that moment. Well, so you're like have hair on your head. And she said something like, let the hair that you have grow but you read it. Yeah,

It hurt. It just straight up hurt

The words. She did not say a great story.

That's why we're doing the five languages of

Apologies. That's why we're doing it today. Right

Mom . So this is Carol Timmons. And mom, I ran Well I was hot as a kid. You were. I mean, I'd go down to the neighbor's house and I'd sweat

Every minute. You were sweating. Thank you. You were always hot.

Thank you. That's what I've tried to tell everybody in the world. . I've always been hot. And you were trying to blame it on age Chris. But it's not just an H I am in my twenties.

I wondered if there was a male equivalent of what, as women get older, they tend to run a little hotter. I wonder if as men get older, if they tend to run a little hotter as well. You know what I mean?

So that's gonna be what we're talking about today. Menopause or menopause.

. So, oh my goodness.

This feel right? I could be way wrong,

So everybody, my mom is here in the Nashville, Tennessee in the Franklin to be

Specific.

, . And again from California, we say the in front of everything. . So the Franklin or the 6 0 5, the mom. So anywho. But I said, mom, if you're here, cuz my daughter's birthday and you were here hanging out with Yes her. She's 15, she's driving.

Is that what happens at 15 here?

Yeah. You guys, my daughter got her driver's permit.

Does it happen at 15?

Yes. It doesn't just happen. You gotta take a test.

But at 15 and Oklahoma's, 15 and a

Half. Yes. California too.

But

Here, yeah, we don't care. Straight

15 on the birthday. Yeah.

Reckless. Oh yeah, we were

Actually, that freaks me out a little bit. Cause I'm like, oh we're six months closer. Yeah,

. Okay. You just

Made my whole life jump six months. Yeah,

Exactly. Wow. Exactly. My goodness. So that's,

That's happening.

Okay. And she's gonna be

Great. I've got a little time to prepare. you in it. Sorry.

I did tell her, and I confessed this to my mom last night that I told her, Hey babe, I'm gonna teach you how to drive. You're supposed to, you're gonna be on the test. And I said, this is one area in life that I'm gonna say, don't watch what I do, just do what I say. Okay. Don't watch as I do . Cause I drive below the speed limit.

most of the time

Of the time. I

See, I see. Now,

Which car are you gonna let her drive?

A horse and buggy. Okay.

Are you gonna let her back out of the driveway?

She's done that. She has, yeah. Just not outta the garage cuz Well, I don't want to go in those. I'll lose my marriage. But Hillary took out one of my mirrors in

My garage. That's right. I think I leading into that a little bit. You what kind friend? It was a trap. It was a

Hillary. That wasn't even my fault, honey. That was Chris who just basically ruined our marriage

Right here.

So speaking of, I don't know how that, there's no good transition, but Well

I I've got a good one. You have a good transition. Just go right in. Successful relationships are all about repairs.

There's

Many

Tie ins

Here. Okay, well let's move on to something better. Not

Just car repairs. Let's go. Not

Just car repairs, emotional bears. So I asked my mom, I said, mom, you're kind of a hit on our show . And I said, you're gonna be here so why don't you just do a podcast with us? And this next season we're talking about talking to experts about things that matter and how do we actually join Jesus in our lives in the real, crazy, difficult, mundane, all that stuff. So I said, mom, what's something that's just been that you've seen your, because you're a therapist by everybody. My mom is a therapist and I get emails and messages from people all the time still. And I'm in Nashville saying how much my mom has helped them and their lives and all that stuff. I said, what are you learning as you're hanging out with people? And this is one of the things you said. And I said, yes, we would love that . So do you want to go into it

A little bit? I'll just do a little preamble here. Yeah. Yes. This is not my material. This is from a book by Gary Chapman and Jennifer Thomas. The original book was The Five Languages of Apology . But it's now been titled When Sorry Isn't enough. So it's not my information I

Have and he's the same guy. Gary Gary's the guy who's done five love

Languages. Five love languages. Okay. . . Okay. But I think this is really important information and I use it a lot with people that I work with. So when he said What would be good for relationships, I thought, well gosh, this is really important and I use it a lot. So just to sort of set it up in marriage, we have two intelligent people who are going to differ about a number of things. Even if a husband and wife love each other, they're gonna have different likes and dislikes. And you're gonna have different ideas about what's appropriate and not appropriate. And differing ideas about preop priorities and responsibilities. Friends, even good friends, see things differently, have different perspectives on things, values and so forth. And in families with parents and children, they differ a lot because regarding what is they think is right, the kids think is right or what is acceptable to say or not to say to do or not to do and so forth. So in all of that, there are lots of opportunities to offend one another. and hurts someone else's feelings or just misunderstand one another. So that's where repair comes in.

Okay. So what was your opening line?

Successful relationships are all about repair because we're going to offend or misunderstand or do something that disrupts the relationship . But if we can repair it, then we're on our way to even a deeper relationship. , we're bound to repair relationships that are important to us often. So if we can get good at it and have effective repair, then we're going to have better and better relationships. And that's where families get in trouble is when something happens and they don't know how to repair, they're afraid to repair, they don't repair well, we get a lumpy rug. And so everybody is constantly tripping over the lumpy rug. And they get to where many families, I've noticed many families have so many lumpy rugs, they just keep pushing things down because they're afraid to confront. They're afraid to say, wait a minute, I didn't like that hurt my feelings. Or Could you say that a different way? Or do over .

There's also the element of being tired of repairing. There are times when in our marriage we work really hard at repairing, repairing, repairing, repairing or with my kids. But there are also times I'm like, I'm tired of the same repair over and over and over. Yes. It takes so much work and I kind of get tired of that.

Are you tired of you doing the same thing or somebody else doing the same thing?

Probably somebody else doing the same thing and having to come up with the same conversation. Now the same could be said about me on the other side of all these things. Of course. But that was just something that hit me when you said that that was just another,

Well then that's the next step. If things are constantly offending, then there needs to be some change somewhere. And we might get into the idea of forgiveness a little bit. We'll just see where we go with all this.

Yeah, let's go. Let's go. This is gonna be real.

So anyway, I have the cliff notes on the book when Sorry isn't enough. And I'm going to be reading little blurbs about each of the five styles of apology. We found that there are five basic styles of apology. And I would like you to think about which one or two would be most or are most meaningful to you. Because we found that in the research that 75% of couples have different apology languages. . So if you apologize to your mate or to your friend and they go not weak. Yeah, yeah. Get me. I'm not sure you're sincere. You probably didn't hit their apology language, but you might have used your own apology language and you're thinking Ive, I don't know what you want. Right. I said I'm sorry, right. I did this or that. Nothing's good enough for you. Then we come up with that. Nothing I say is good enough for you. So let's not ever just deal with repair.

. . That's never happened. But that's, I'm sure other have that problem. .

Goodness. So not

Unpack. So it helps to know what kind of apology is meaningful to you. And of course, what apology language is meaningful to your friend or to your mate? . Then what's music to their ears? . Otherwise you're speaking another language and they're saying, I don't believe you. Yeah. . Right? I don't hear you. Yes. So can you think of failed repair attempts? I'm sure you've had them. People have tried to say they're sorry and you go, don't think so.

I think she was looking at you Mo. That's what I, I'm just staying quick. Cause I felt like she was staring

At you. I was looking at your guitars. I was dodging eye contact. Cause I know no one is making, it's always me guys. It's always me. It's like the Lord's tried to just expose

Me. I have one. Okay. So there's one in my life right now that my mom knows about that. I'm sorry Tim, this is really a care fer for you. This whole time. His name is rhymes with wrists.

I knew it. I knew it. But this person, I've really needed some apology from them. And it's been really like a veiled apology. It's been anything. It's just blaming other things. It's never really been taking ownership. It's this little quick ownership and then moving on to something else. Is that what you're talking about?

Well the idea of this is that there are five different aspects to an apology . And if you can use all of five, you're probably going to get to the person. . . So that's why we're thinking of five, the five languages of apology, the five aspects. So you wanna learn your own apology language and the other person's apology language to make it easier for them to forgive genuinely and for you to receive it genuinely. Yeah.

So it's both sides. Yes. That's

Great. So when you speak the right apology language, then to those you love, it deepens the relationship. But when you don't or you don't have an effective one or you can't say, I don't think I get what you're saying. I don't think that doesn't speak to me. If you can have a conversation about that, then you can get somewhere. Yeah.

Yeah. good . By the way, everybody, my mom Carol has provided us with some Mexican restaurant menus.

Sitting right here, guys. Beautiful.

Right here. No, it does. It's got that font. It's the right

Colors. I don't know, but I'll take the number two. Do I really like that it's looking? Maybe

That's what it was, is it's like numbers and the colors altogether. I love it Mom. It's so great. And we can put this in our show notes, some of the

Stuff. Can you Yes,

Yes. Is that if we don't

Sue, we have to give credit to Gary Chapman. I'd rather and Jennifer Thomas.

I'd rather us take it that

Guy. Solomon and elevator. Once

Very

. Well you have to think about, if we're talking about the five languages of apology, what does an apology mean to you? ? What is an apology? ? What is an apology? What isn't an apology? Yeah. We want it to be an effective apology. . People can give you the first one is the first language is, I'm sorry, but it goes into a little bit more than just, I'm sorry. . If you think about an apology is actually somebody said is birthed in the womb of regret.

Apology is

Birth is birthed in the womb of regret. In other words, that's just fundamental to an apology. Is there any regret on the other person's part?

On the

Offender?

On the offender? Is there any regret? Got it. Yep.

Yes. We regret pain. The person who is the offender should be regretting pain that they caused regretting disappointment in the other person. Regretting, inconvenience, regretting, betrayal of trust. They might be regretting what they did or what they didn't do. They might regret how it affected the other person. But the offended person wants a realization of how deeply they have been hurt.

Gosh, that's so true.

I feel like that's almost the first roadblock we hit. Because there's so many times, I mean, gosh, I've been there when we don't hit. And it's like, well there's nothing I regret here to, I can say I'm sorry if you need it. And I feel like this is how a lot of apologies happen that don't go anywhere. I'm sorry that you were hurt. Yeah. I'm sorry that you start projecting these things but you're not actually apologizing for something that you've done. And so actually that was what an early lesson I had to learn in my marriage with Kenzie is we figured out how we spoke to each other. I was like, well I don't even know what I did wrong on. And she'd be like, well you can see how I'm feeling. Can you at least be sorry about that? And so that took me a while to figure out . It's like, okay, I actually can have remorse for the way that I've made you feel. But that was something I had to learn. I didn't. I didn't.

Which is empathy. And we generally need to learn true empathy. Sympathy is standing at the top of a cliff looking down saying, sorry for you, . . Whereas empathy is down in the bottom of the cliff saying, this is horrible . I get it. This is really bad.

Man, I think I lacked that in my childhood. Apologies are a weird thing for me. I didn't hear, I'm sorry. In my home and I had a parent who took up all the space. And so I think to me an apology is validation. Yes, you're validating that I'm hurt . I don't think I grew up with that. And it's been a lot on my mind actually lately. , especially with the parent dynamic . Because I ran into a mom that I think I upset years ago and she sent me an awful email, took my identity apart, destroyed me. And it haunted me. But she defended it behind a mother's righteous anger and protecting her kids. Which I totally understood. But at the time I felt like why once again was neglected by a parent who has the power and authority to not have to say sorry. And so apologies to me are just the simple, I'm sorry, heals a lot for me cuz I just did not hear it. , , . And I think about, and I know we haven't gone into the different level languages, but just the first one already has me kind of weak, , . Cause I'm sorry does a lot for me. . a lot for me . Cause my family and I are really close and we've moved on. But actions do not speak louder than words. For me, words actually mean and do something to my soul.

best is words and actions. . That's the strongest. The first language here says experiencing regret. And the way you would say that is, I'm sorry, . This definition of this is it acknowledges that the hurt your action caused the other shows remorse. Not I'm sorry if mm-hmm , but rather I'm sorry that mm-hmm my pride, my fear, my laziness, my anger hurt you and our relationship. Wow. . Now let me just go back. There are things that have hurt someone else that you think, you know needed to be hurt about that . In other words, you could say, I'm sad that what I said hurt you, but you may not be sorry that you said it.

If someone called you a terrible name and you said, I don't think that's appropriate that you called me that name. And they said, well apologize. And well I, I'm sad that you feel a certain way, but not sorry that I said it because I needed to say I needed to defend myself or I needed to make clear something I really felt So it's fair to say I'm sorry if something I said, but if you're really apologizing, you're gonna say, I'm sorry that, that's

Great distinction

. So here's how it could be said. I'm truly sorry that I hurt you so deeply with my insensitivity. I never intended to, but now I see my words were out of

Line. Yeah.

How does that sound to you? It would speak to you if somebody could say that

It does. Because I feel acknowledged just the idea of, but now I see my words were out of line. I think in the situations I've been, I'm not acknowledged at all . And so they're not seeing me. And so their apology I can tell is for themselves to defend themselves or clean their name. And so I have never heard something like this said to me in my experience with my family,

. . As we're diving into these, do you see an order that some of these come in or are they ordered in an order that they make typically come in?

I did not make the order and I don't know that I would make an order. I guess I would put this one as primary . Yeah, that makes sense because just that quote there about yes, you would acknowledge it. It's birthed in the womb of regret and this one is regret. Yeah. So for me, without someone regretting can see one of the other languages is making amends. If somebody just wants to make amends, I'm sorry that, yeah. Don't give me a gift. Tell me you did something wrong. Right. I'll did. I'll take your gift. Right. But the gift or the language of restitution in amends doesn't really connect. I need regret first. Yes. So maybe there is at least that order some

Sort of order . And so if one person is not willing to or not experiencing any sort of regret, then you're kind stuck in the water. Is that a thing? I don't know.

Drowning could be dragging or wet in water.

You're not moving. You're

A little damp and

You're not in the water. You're not

Yeah. The current took you

Drifting so bad at those . I don't that me too wipe

Out, wiped

Out. I'm experiencing immediate regret

. And I apologize that's not if, but that's, so I just jumping on this. So I I'm looking at, I'm sorry if but rather I'm sorry that so to say. I'm sorry if what I said hurt you, is that still a thing?

It's really should be. I'm sad. I'm sad because you are sad but you're not saying sorry because you're really not

Sorry. You're great

Distinctions.

Is there, where does gaslighting and things like that come into there? Because I could see, I'm sorry that you were hurt by this. I'm sorry. But you're really trying to, when I think of those in the instances that I've been a part of those, those are quick fixes to get out of a situation and not really or trying to flip a scenario. Cause I feel like that happens a lot in apologies. That's right. I'm sorry. And then it turns into, but you did all this.

Exactly. Yeah. I'm sorry if you were hurt by this, but I was so busy and so tired. . I wasn't really responsible for my behavior. what? . Yeah. That's not an apology.

. So is should the next word after, I'm sorry. That be I mm-hmm. instead of you. Cause you could almost get around the if part, cause you could say, I'm sorry that you blanked. Right? Yeah. But it's, I'm sorry that I

Did whatever I do did this. Mm-hmm. what? You could even say it right. I'm sorry that I hurt you with my insensitivity. But you don't then erase it right. By saying, but you don't understand what was going on for me. Yeah, yeah,

Yeah. Oh,

We need to learn how to let it go.

Absolutely. Just it. You've said it. Shut up. Yeah,

We don't talk like that here.

I'm at this house,

Timothy Howard Timmons.

Sorry dear.

Yeah, we say shut the front door. That's what we say here. So great. We're doing great.

Wow. .

Okay. One quote I brought being heard is so close to being loved that for the average person, they're almost indistinguishable. Wow.

Mm-hmm. , read that one

More time. I will read it again. Being heard, feeling heard is so close to being loved that for the average person, they're almost indistinguishable.

. David Augsburg said that. I think it's a great quote. Okay, so that's number one. Language number one.

. I know I'm care tacos. Anybody got tissues? I just need 'em on the side of the table. I just wanna look at

Everybody. Here we go. Number two,

Language

Number

Two. Number two, language number two is accepting responsibility. And the way you would say that is, I was wrong. .

This

One. man size on the side here. This names the mistaken action and takes responsibility for it. Now it's easier to say you're right, but I was wrong. Carries more weight and this is how it could be said. I made a big mistake. I didn't think about what I was doing. But that was precisely the problem. I should have thought before I acted. I think every family should teach their children this. These phrases, these words. so that it's not foreign to their ears. And you can say to a child, I wasn't thinking and I did something. You're right. I wasn't even thinking. Yeah.

Yes.

And have it be okay. That's normal conversation around here instead of

Yes.

So accepting responsibility.

This is so interesting. I think my family is kind of yours. And where there wasn't a lot of apology got thrown around, we had some heavy issues, that are still like, God, I wish you he'd just say he was sorry. Said he did, did just everybody knows. Own it. Yeah. Own it. And so many times. So now I think I've gone, I can, last night and this morning I apologized to two kids and I might be apologizing for more. So although I am kind of like I can be a jerk dad, I feel like sometimes and I'm doing my best. But got angry at two kids last night and this morning we took a quick trip and it's just all the dumb stuff. And then my son somehow flooded the bathroom downstairs this morning. Okay. I'm like, what did you put down the toilet? I'm like, full dad mode, poop water all over the floor. And yeah, my five year old, I swear I didn't do it . So I take a beat and I'm like, buddy, I'm sorry I'm not mad at you. And so I try to come back around and when I can get sober in myself and make those apologies, maybe because they didn't happen for us and still haven't happened in meaningful ways, even as adults. , I was wrong. That one's huge.

. So are all these gonna be Mom, I'm sorry when I was wrong, blah blah blah. Could they almost be a sentence? I wanna get it ahead of

Ourselves. No, that's a good question. Well look at the tip at the very end when you don't know someone's apology language, make the effort to cover all the bases. It'll be likely to hit on something that will be music to their ears. And then it says, a sincere apology is a precious gift. It really is. So think of it this way, these are the five aspects of an apology . Most people are fine. If you hit their first two, you hit the first two that are really meaningful. They're like, okay, enough, you know, don't have to do everything. Yeah. . But if it's a real deep issue, five, these are the five aspects. So if you wanna cover them, that's why this is I think good because if you say three of them and people aren't getting it, okay, add another one. Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

Is that,

Yeah,

Totally. Do what you're saying. Totally.

I think we fit my first two already. Yeah. Yeah. I really do. I mean my cousins and I talk about it all the time. We saw our parents and uncles and aunts just miss holidays because of a lack of apologies. Just not a lot of really see that one cousin for a minute until they get repair. And we just have tried so hard to not be that . But it's hard when it's like we still have our own baggage with our parents. . Yeah. I think the first time I heard my mom apologize was maybe five years ago and I was deciding to move here . And then she was like, I don't know what I ever did that you don't wanna move home, but I'm sorry. And I was like, I don't even know either. But I think it's many, sorry in one thing, , but it, it's just foreign. I think especially, I don't know if it also has to do with an immigrant family, and just my parents having to do so much that you almost don't expect sorrys because they're putting their life on the line for you and they've

Got everything going.

So there should be expected some slack in every area. for them. , , I don't know, just stuff. But I think these two truly are my too

. Okay. Okay. What a lot of families you're talking about seem to do is if there's an offense some and or uncle said something or was critical of somebody in the family and then they don't speak for however long, half a year or a year, , five years, 10 years, whatever it is. And then someone just sends a birthday card or says, I miss you. And then they start calling again and then the whole issue's lost. Right?

? Yes.

Until it just, so that's how family some families operate is you just wait a certain amount of time and then you sort worm your way back in with something. Or oh, it's the 4th of July, we're having a party. Do you wanna come and yes, da da da da.

Yes. That's my experience.

I feel like I'm too stubborn and if I wanna throw family drama out here, I haven't talked to my brother in five years probably. And I won't dive into all of it, but it's very much a, we've never gotten to and I was wrong and I'm sorry. We've actually had a conversation where we talked about a bunch of things and I was kind of like, Hey gears, I put some boundaries up I think. And it was like, if we're gonna have a relationship, these are the things that I'd like to see. And since then we haven't spoken in maybe another three years or something . But he's very good at, and I don't wanna do this on a podcast and we have a history in the family, so I'm not gonna put it all in him of just show up and pretend like everything's good and I , I just can't do it. And so after years and years of doing that, I don't wanna walk into a room and have unresolved issues at Rich rather not be there. . And so yeah, I don't even know where that's going. Maybe you can gimme some therapy after this. But , I think there's probably a lot of people in a similar scenario. Yes there are. Where it's like, I'd like to have relationship, I would like to be there, but I feel like I'm the only one participating. . So then ,

The goal is to keep short accounts when you're reconciling your checkbook, that's an old term. But when you're keeping things up to date, then if you're keeping short accounts, then what you said last week or three weeks ago or something. But when it gets to be three months, three years, 30 years, , so many other things have gone under the bridge that now whatever was the original fence is so big. Well, you know, never sent birthday cards. Well we never got a Christmas card. Well and so died. You didn't even let us know. Oh my gosh. Now we got so many things that there repairs far away. Cause there were so many things now that have to be addressed.

That's how it feels for us. I think about my kids and I'm like, well my kids don't know you. Which is crazy. Totally. How about your brother? And so we get this person who was mean the closest friend that I ever had to now, well my kids don't even know who you are. . And so it feels like an insurmountable mountain.

That's the problem.

Yeah. . But maybe it could be cuz I still feel like one and two could get me really far down the road. Really. Probably healthy behavior on the other end of it. . Well

It's fair to draw boundaries. Yeah. You're saying you drew boundaries. It's fair to draw boundaries and if someone cannot meet you in the middle of your boundary, you can't even negotiate a boundary. Then sometimes there are disruptions in relationships and it has to be, it's not that you have to keep every relationship you've ever had, comes some. It's just sad when it's a family

Because

You will always be family . And so if there's any way you can even come to a meeting of the minds of we disagree on this and this, but we can agree to do this

And does that grace, I think about sometimes the difference between

Getting stuck in a mindset where we feel like we need to give grace, but we're not giving grace, we're giving slack or we're letting something happen again. But we're not truly, grace isn't partnered with something afterwards to continue to repair. I think sometimes I grew up watching my family members give each other grace, but really it was like a, I'm gonna let you get away with it this time cuz it wasn't that bad. But I kind of have a record of it on the side . And that's not really grace . So I think is that somehow a rethinking of grace also partnered with a rethinking of how to apologize to people?

I'm not sure I can really answer your question there. The principle is that we don't want to lose ourselves. So if two people disagree, the best thing is for one person to say, I really don't agree with you, but I'd like to go on with other relationships, other things between us. But if we can just understand we don't agree because a lot of people have the idea that intimacy or closeness should mean total agreement,

. And then if we don't agree, we can't, we can't really even have than Thanksgiving.

I mean the last couple years have been insane, right? How many friendships have we lost over the pandemic and over silly things. That's

Right.

. Geez.

Yeah. Agree to disagree and make it clear so you don't lose yourself. That's my point with you. Yes. You don't wanna lose yourself. This is really important to me and I see you see it this way. Okay, I get it. Now can we talk about these things over here?

Okay everybody, that is the first episode of these two episodes on apologizing. Thanks for listening so far and we'd love to know your thoughts. So please go to Instagram. The Instagram, oh wow. Yeah. Or any of the social medias. I've heard of that. Instagram. We are 10 k minutes

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Industry

Lingo, . So people, we went through languages one and two, by the way, three through five is pretty radical. Get ready. So just in a second you can just move on to that. Cause it was, it's so good, so good. But any thoughts

For you guys?

Yeah, I mean how many times have we heard be the bigger person and apologize. And it was so good to hear Carol explain how apologizing is not about doing the right thing or being the bigger person. It's about acknowledging that pain is being experienced by someone else and you were probably the source of that pain. , if not the starter of that pain. And so apologize, apologizing. And the idea that it comes out of true remorse is a game changer instead of a thing we check off cuz Jesus would. So that's a thing I think I'm excited to kind of unpack in my own world and in the ways I apologize or receive apology and hope and look for the remorse in that.

Yeah, I mean there's so much intentionality in this , which really has been just kind of a vague thing that we just do. We just say I'm sorry, or I said I'm sorry. I mean my kids do this all the time. I said, I'm sorry . Like, gosh, nope, that there's zero. It's just a thrown out word. But I do the same thing. I might disguise it more, but there's just such a rethinking of our intentionality in my apologizing. And then how received those apologies too , which we're gonna get into in the second half

. And I think there's an ownership aspect to apology that sometimes we miss. It's like we want to get to the resolution and we still have more steps after these too. We wanna get to where things are good again. But it's so important that we even understand what the offense was that we understand and have some remorse for that and actually feel it. So then we can lead into these other steps that we're gonna get to. If we don't understand the harm and we can't take responsibility for it, then we can

Experiencing

Regret, then we can't move on to those next steps.

Yes,

Chris. That is so true. . That is so true. So really we have a practice this week, which is we're gonna be rethinking, apologizing, so rethink your apologies and how you're actually coming to it so it's not just a one and done quick thing, but really it's like it's gonna take time. This is not something that just . I think when I think of apologies, I think of it as I do it and we're done.

Yeah.

Versus this is just as intentional and it's gonna be some time and space and work to do this. Yes. But in the end, it's actually gonna get us somewhere versus the other kind of apologizing that doesn't. Right. . So in your relationships this week, whoever you are, wherever you are, let's rethink apologizing, even if it's in the smallest way. Even if it's you cut somebody off on the road, or if it's a family member or somebody at work or whatever,

Or someone in your past.

Or someone in your past

Or someone you don't have an ability to reconnect with. Yeah. I mean there are many ways you can practice rethinking, apologizing.

Yes. So that's our practice this week. Let's just be aware of it this week and then next week we'll jump into the next three. Or if you're binging, you will do that in a few minutes. But yeah, I think this would be powerful. And this is how we actually join Jesus is by doing some of this hard work that will actually produce beautiful fruit on the other side. So thank you for being part of 10,000 minutes. Always go to 10,000 minutes.com and check out the different resources we have there for you and we're thankful for

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I thought you were saying hide it like my baldness under a bushel. No, I'm gonna let it shine. Let it shine. Let it shine. Okay. Bye you guys. See you next week.