Episode Summary:Pastor and NFL Chaplain of the Dallas Cowboys and Mavericks, Jonathan Evans walks us through two years of chronic loss, the importance of rest when grieving, and what building relational equity looks like. Tangent included: Jonathan’s ability to grow hair and Tim’s lack thereof… Practice: Breathe In: Jesus, In You - Breathe Out: I Find Rest
Episode Summary:
Pastor and NFL Chaplain of the Dallas Cowboys and Mavericks, Jonathan Evans walks us through two years of chronic loss, the importance of rest when grieving, and what building relational equity looks like. Tangent included: Jonathan’s ability to grow hair and Tim’s lack thereof…
Practice: Breathe In: Jesus, In You - Breathe Out: I Find Rest
If you’ve found this or another practice helpful, let us know at mail@10000minutes.com and we might include your story in a future episode!
Show Notes:
“Fighting Your Battles”: https://store.tonyevans.org/purchase/fighting-your-battles-book
“Stories From The Storyteller”: https://www.instagram.com/jonathanblakeevans/?hl=en
Jonathan’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jonathanblakeevans/?hl=en
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You can't heal when everybody's in your face or you're still producing for people, or you're still, you know, you're, you're pouring from a cup that's empty and people just go into deeper depressions and deeper anxiety trying to pour from a cup that's empty. You're more dry than you've ever been in your life, uh, because you haven't been poured into. So you have to have a season where you're poured into.
Hello everybody. This is Tim Timmons with the 10,000 Minute Podcast. Whoa.
It
Never heard of
It. Ammo Denise.
Oh, sorry. Hi guys.
You silly. Chris Cleveland. He just waved everybody. So if you're, if you're not watching this, if, if you're listening,
Was, Hey, wave. I was like, there's cameras. They can see me
Know. Forgot we were a podcast for a second. Yeah,
Yeah, yeah. Cameras. Sorry. Yeah. Uh, my friend Mike Erie is always saying, he's like, Tim, you hug people with your eyes. Okay.
Whoa. Oh,
Okay. And I, I am, I feel a little awkward sometimes because when I'm listening
Somebody though, well, but wonder how that works with it.
Am I doing it right?
Well, when I'm like, listen, if I'm listening to, if I'm listening to, I'm kind of like, I do something with, he's like, he's like, you hug me with your eyes. Wow. So
Guys,
That's new.
Start hugging people with your eyes. Yeah. And with your bodies, if it's appropriate. And if it's inappropriate, there's
Gotta be some boundaries. Still do
It.
Wow. So many things. I dunno,
Why did I think, oh, because Chris kind of waved with
Yeah. Annie, who, what are
We doing here today?
We're just hanging out. We're shooting the stuff. Okay. Uh, everybody, today we've got Jonathan Evans on. Yes. Uh, who is a stud. I mean, he was N f l linebacker. Was he? Fullback? That's what I said. Fullback.
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Internally. I was like, oh, I was so right. Okay,
So everybody be listening for how many times Chris uses, uh, sports, sports metaphors.
Oh, yeah. Guys, it's
Too good. You're like, so Jonathan, it's kind of like when you're running the ball down the field,
Now did go heavy on the sports. He did metaphors to
Live. I loved it though. Yeah. Yeah. You were there with
Him. You were there with
Him. Just try to meet him. Yeah. You
Know. Yeah. I kept using soccer references.
Yeah. And I was like, sports. Okay. I'm just gonna listen
Today. Sports balls. We love sports,
Football.
Any who, uh, Jonathan has had quite a story and mm-hmm.
Year and a half. Yeah. Uh, yeah. Just a lot of calamity and just sorrow. And it was, it's, it's really profound. And a lot of the things that he's saying are really beautiful. Mm-hmm.
What's going on guys? How y'all doing,
Man? We're killing it. We're doing a Zoom interview right now, and Jonathan, something you don't know about me is that whenever we do Zoom interviews, I generally sweat and cuss
True.
Thanks for wasting all of my time.
No, I'm good. I'm good
Too. Good. Uh, Jonathan, are you bald?
To find a connection.
Yeah. Maybe, maybe don't say it like that. Jonathan
Have a nice little, a nice
Little line. You could be a line in the back that you could make a few cool cuts on. Mm-hmm.
Well, it starts with, uh, uh, family. So, family's number one. Have my wife, Kika, who we met at Baylor University. I'm a Baylor Bayer, come on. On. And, uh, from there, you know, sweet, sweet kids. We got five kids. Yes. Five. Oh my gosh. So I have a 13 year old, an 11 year old, a, uh, let's see, where am I at? Eight year old, uh, six year old, seven year old, and a three year old. And so it's a, you know, the starting five is in, there's gonna be no substitution. Oh my
Gosh.
We're all done
Okay. I'm exhausted officially just
Feeling inadequate. You know,
I play the guitar
Good, though. We need that
Yeah. She's given him some tips.
Yeah. Have you hung out with Anthony before?
I've basically taught him ever. Actually, I actually have now, this is a real story. I was gonna make a joke. Oh my gosh. He and I were on the Mayor Craft together like a decade ago. We were on a boat with John Mayer in 2009, and, uh, we didn't like, know each other. Yeah. But he's doing something. Lohan organization my wife works for right now, and they were hanging out a couple days ago and she Within
With his brother?
Yeah. With his brother. And I was like, oh, he can sing, you know? Yeah. And so she goes to him, it's like, Hey, my husband's a huge fan of blah, blah, blah
I, I leave him out. I don't, I don't do, my older brother that's down on me
Super,
He might invoke his inheritance rights or something like that. So I leave him alone.
American football
Play fullback
Baby.
Yeah. So it, it, I had had the opportunity to play at Baylor and I played, uh, five years in the N F nfl and, uh, or the NFL played me, is what I like to tell people. I was on 16 of like five years. I was all over the place. But
No doubt. Okay. So I'm gonna be a little personal here, and maybe everybody knows this, but was it, uh, an injury? Was it you bolted? Were they like, Nope, sorry, you didn't make the cut after all these years?
Well, it was a combination of all of that when you're on six teams in five years. But the way that it ended, totally, um, I mean, I was carted off the field. I remember playing against the, um, new England Patriots and I made a block, and Chris Brown, who was the running back at the time, literally fell on my heel. Mm-hmm.
Come on. And so I'm, I go out in my backyard, basically a little neighborhood football field, you know, a junior high, Uhhuh
Wow. Oh my gosh.
I mean, that's where everything went out, went off.
If that doesn't preach, I don't know what does That injury took me into seminary,
Uh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I was, I was, but I was, I was kind of running at the same time. And so it was a grief period for me coming outta the N F L cause that's what, that's actually what I was using to escape ministry. You know, my dad's Tony Evans, so I didn't wanna do anything that he did. That's why Michael Jordan's son trying out for the bulls. I was trying to
Crazy. And so we started getting really skeptical and cynical about what was going on in our family. We were starting to wonder who's next? Um, you know, cause it was happening four to six month increments. And it was people, you know, my dad flew to his dad's funeral in November of 2019, and then flew home to be with my mother as she passed away in December of 2019. Wow. Wow. So he buries his father and his wife, um, within a span of 30 days. Wow. And so before that, he lost his sister, his sister's husband, uh, he lost his brother, uh, to bone cancer, his niece, my cousin Winter, uh, at 38 years old, we had a cousin pass away at 30. Mm. Um, and so it was just back to back to back. And so we were wondering what God was go, what was going on.
And um, and really trying to pedal through that and trying to figure out where victory really is, you know? Mm-hmm.
Like, if it's hard for you to watch these grievous experience you've had in your family, how much harder was it for me to watch my perfect son die so that they all can actually live? And so if you understand where I'm taking them as much better than where they are, you know, you prayed for your mom to be healed. Now she is forever. You prayed for your mom to be with family. Now she is forever. You prayed for your mom to be taken care of. Now she is forever. I gave you your prayer request on a greater scale than you even asked it. But because of your unbelief, you're sitting there and you're grieving as if those, as if you're one of those who have no hope. And so it wasn't that it wasn't hard, it's just that I had to reorient myself to biblical victory versus human victory and realize that he answers our prayers sometimes in ways that we don't understand, but are much better than our understanding. Um, and so, Hmm. That's what I learned through all of that is tough. And, and that's why we, you know, that's kind of where I learned to fight battles.
Hmm. I mean, that, that's beautiful, but how does that actually work,
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, but they gotta realize that they're not alone. They gotta realize that, you know, a lot of times when we face these things, we're intrinsically and internalizing them, and we're going into a cave, like I said, and we feel like it's just our family. It's just the Evans family. No, this is a worldwide wow. Pandemic that happens day after day in people's lives. And ever since the fall of Adam and Eve in the Garden, you know, for our expectations to be anything less just means we really have a good God because we're living under the overwhelming upside downness of what the world is really supposed to be. Mm-hmm.
Crystal, my oldest, and I was, we just looked at her, we were like, what's wrong? You know, we were just kind of talking about family. Yeah. And she just was just crying and weeping. She's just like, man, things are just ne never gonna be the same, you know? Yeah, yeah. Our family unit is not the same. Our family structure is not the same. We don't go back to Baltimore anymore. There's no family there. They've all either migrated or passed away. Right. I mean, your fam your, your whole life just changes in a matter of a couple of years. Yeah. Yeah. And you're trying to grapple and deal with all that. And I remember me and my dad talking, and I used it in football terms and I just, you know, this reality hit me. I said, you know, as a chaplain of the Cowboys, I remember Jason Wooden being so sad when Tony Roma retired, and it happens all the time, guys being sad when Deb's, they moved on from Des Bryant.
Um, all of these different things. And I said, the guys are always sad when a player retires because they played with 'em so long and they built so much camaraderie and so much fellowship and friendship. But the reality is, as long as you have on the uniform, the expectation is from the coach and the owner that you keep, you put your head down and you keep playing until you retire too. Because retirement is not mutually exclusive to the person who goes before you. Retirement is something you're gonna experience too. And your job until you get there is to put your head down between the lines and play as hard as you can. Hmm. And so I told, I said that to my dad and he said, I appreciate that. And that's what we've done in our family, because we know we're gonna retire. We know all people retire unless Jesus returns first.
That's just the way it is. And so we've just made a decision of the will to put our heads down, to keep fighting, to keep playing, to keep going hard. And what we've been called to do between the lines until we retire too. And when we retire, the people that are still playing, they'll be sad about it. Every player's sad when players retire. Yeah. They'll be sad about it. And they'll have the same call on their life. You put your head down between the lines and you play hard until your retirement comes. And it just continues to go. And we want to impact as many people as we can impact so that when we see him, we at least get through all the turmoil and the stress. We at least get well done. My good and faithful servant. Well done. It'll be meaningful at that point.
Yeah. I've got two questions and they kind of connect, I think like growing up in a family of, of ministers, I, I did the same thing, a little different. But what gave you the permission, I think when you were walking through hell to be okay to like, to have the questions and to be able to like, like, God, what in the world is happening? Mm-hmm.
Yeah. I think that's a great question. I think the permission was, at a certain point I remembered my training. I remembered just like, you know, David fighting Goliath when Saul tried to give him his armor. And David said, uh, no, I haven't tested this. In other words, I haven't gone this way before. I haven't, uh, trained in this. And so I'm not gonna face this giant in something that's not my training. And for a minute I tried to test it. I tried to take an armor that wasn't mine that I've never been trained in. And I thought about going to war in it. And if you know anything about Saul's armor, it's caral armor has nothing to do with the armor of God. Cuz Saul was caral. And so it was a natural way of approaching a big problem. And I thought about that for a while.
And then again, my training came back to me, the, the book of Cor Corinthians, I don't remember off the top of my head if it's first Corinthians three or second Corinthians three, uh, 18. But it says, come before the Lord with an unveiled face, meaning pull the veil off and God can handle it. And I said, well, God, if you can handle it, you're about to get it. Um, and so I had that time of, of going at God and really, you know, challenging his methods, challenging all of the things. You know, just like in Joe, if he told, uh, you know, Joe, where were you when I created the earth? He kind of looked at him like, I understand you had the challenge. I understand you had a problem, but where were you when I designed all this stuff? And so I, I came to the conclusion after grappling with God, and I think that's what people need to know, is that it's okay to grapple with God.
It's okay to tell him exactly what you're feeling. It's not like you can lie to him. He knows exactly what you're feeling anyway,
It's not like we just jumped back in the game, right? Number one was we went away as a family and we rested and we communicated. Mm. And we talked through all of our feelings. And my brother, you know, he went and sought counseling. You know, those things. We went away mm-hmm.
Hmm. That's great. So good. Yeah. I mean, would, would those be the practices that you were doing at that moment and through that whole season?
Yeah, definitely. I mean, we're literally sitting right out here on my sister's porch. We missed, you know, a couple of months of not being visible. Um, whether it was, you know, kind of the social media scene, whether it's the church scene, uh, because we really just needed some time, uh, to just heal and to deal with. You can't heal when everybody's in your face or you're still producing for people, or you're still, you know, you're, you're pouring from a cup that's empty. Right. And people just go into deeper depressions and deeper anxiety trying to pour from a cup that's empty. You're more dry than you've ever been in your life, uh, because you haven't been poured into. So you have to have a season where you're poured into. So I grappled came to a conclusion, but that doesn't mean that I wasn't still empty. Right? Right. I grappled came to a conclusion I was empty and then needed to take the time to get filled, to build on that perspective, um, so that I can handle, you know, taking the next step. And those next steps look different for everybody. Everybody's a different walk of life and a different place doing different things. But it starts definitely, uh, with healing. You know, this is trauma. And when you're dealing with trauma, you don't have any healing. You're gonna, you're gonna mess up the next situation. You go into
That word grapple is really strong. I think we've all come to a place in our lives where the old ways and answers might not be as comforting or helpful as they once were. Our view of God from our histories, our experiences have gotten us this far. But if we look a little bit deeper, they may have some serious holes and some questions that need to be asked. I know a lot of people get really scared and nervous about asking questions, but don't you think God is big enough to hold these things as we do it with him? I know this place so well in my story. I know this place of empty and grappling needing to untangle things and views of God and ourselves and others that have become knots in my heart, my soul, my mind in my strength. And we all know we don't grow in the good times. So this might be a good time to get curious with God and with others around who can hold just the stuff with you. Have you have, I actually just brought these out to God as if he already sees this stuff and just say, God, here it is. I I don't even know where to go with this, but here's all the stuff. Have you done that? And would you try that?
And then on the other side of it, who might need us to help them hold their stuff? And maybe it's a question that we just asked them, Hey, can I hold any of this with you? Who's that person?
Where did you learn that? Because I feel like so many of us get that wrong. Like, we'll get pieces of it, like maybe we get to rest. Right? But that one's a tough one, right? Maybe we get like to the communication like you have with your family. How did you learn those, those traits and then how to put 'em together? Because what you're saying is, I think right on, especially in ministry and things like that, where it's like so many of us like try to jump back in or do, you know, be the thing that we've always been or whatever. And you know, I've got too many sports analogies in my head cuz you're on now. But it's like, you can't just, you can't just play a game, you know, you gotta train for it. How did you know that? Like what, what got you to that place where you're like, okay, this is what we've gotta do, we can't just jump back in.
Hmm. It's a couple of things. Well, number one, I said when I grappled I kind of remembered my training and, and I put God to the test on it. I said, okay, the word says be still and know that I am God. Okay, we'll do that. Uh, the Bible is clear that the battle is not yours. It belongs to the Lords. Okay. Come to me. All heal weary and heavy latent and I will give you rest. Okay? I'll test you on that. Trust in the Lord with all of your heart, and I will make your path straight. Okay. So what he's doing here is he's trying to take responsibility from those who are weary, those who are hurting, those who are grieving, those who are facing giants, those who are going through problems. He's trying to assume the responsibility, the reason why, uh, we hold so much burden and we go into emotional depressions outside of clinical things and anxiety and things of that nature, is because we're holding the burden.
We've become an owner of the burden. Right? Instead of the steward of it. You're not just supposed to steward your money, you're not supposed to steward your family. It's so good. Uh, you're not just supposed to steward those things that are maybe materialistic. You're supposed to steward your battles too. You, you don't own those either. And so the problem is, is we take full ownership of our battles, our grievances, and our hardships. And we weren't supposed to, we, we don't have an, we don't carry enough weight in our legs to handle that burden. Yeah. And so what what we did is we put him to the test on, okay, we're gonna let you handle this emotionally, spiritually, uh, you know, naturally we're gonna let you handle this while we just go slow. Mm-hmm.
Yeah. We took a trip as a family just to totally get away and sit down and do nothing and just talk and allow the time that we spend with each other and with God begin that healing process to where we feel like, okay, you know, I really feel like I can start taking steps. I really feel like I'm, I'm starting to get filled up enough to where I can actually be of impact and use, uh, based on what we've gone through. And so that's what we were able to do. And my brother actually helped us with that. Cuz my brother is more, um, you know, I think he has a resource coming out called When Faith Meets Therapy. So he's been in therapy and counseling just in general because he likes that as a fine tune. Yeah. You know, for his life. And when all of these things were happening, you know, he was the one saying, well, you know, we gotta be still, we gotta understand that this is a time where we just, you know, you can't go 80 miles an hour in first gear. Yeah.
Hmm. So good. I love that. I love that. Mm-hmm. Uh, I've got a question about, you're hanging out with a lot of younger, younger men as you're doing the chaplain stuff, uh, for, you said for the Mavs and for cowboys. The
Cowboys for the Cowboys, cowboys mostly, mostly, uh, even through Covid, the Ma Mavs kind of shut down during Covid, but
Yes. Uh, so what, what are you learning as you're a chaplain for all these teams and just mostly just for these younger guys? What are you seeing as these normal trends in these guys? Like what are the, the presenting issues that are happening in each of these guys? Mm-hmm.
Yeah. A theme is, uh, there's a couple of themes, uh, but I would say one of the bigger ones is trust. Um, you have to build trust with these guys and even them putting trust in you. But al not only in you trust in the Lord, they have so many issues that people ignore because of where they are. Right. Um, because of them being, you know, superstars and N F L and that people assume the money, they don't assume all their family that they're taking care of. Right. They don't assume where they come from and the fatherlessness and people coming out of the woodworks trying to take from them. Uh, they don't assume the madness that goes behind the scenes. And, uh, so it's absolute chaos. Mm-hmm.
I mean, it is absolute chaos. So then you have people that you trusted now taking from you. And so I've been, I've, I've seen it all when it comes to that, my 11 years. And so then when I come into the locker room, yeah, you're the God guy. You know what I mean? You're the God guy, but I don't trust you either. Soon enough, you'll ask me for something, you'll want something from me. You know what I mean? You know, so, and then, you know, serve God well, God's so it, it distorts this reality when they get put in that position. Especially when you get put in that position at 22 when $5 million hit your account and boom, everything changes. You never knew how to handle your money. You never Right. You know, right now you can buy everything you, so it's just chaos. It, it, it's chaos for a lot of, lot of players.
Fortunately, they've kind of built things to where they, they try to help them train in those other areas. But you can just, you can just imagine the, the chaos that they go through internally while trying to perform on the field. And so I just try to come in, uh, initially and just, uh, build trust. Just let 'em know that I'm there for them, rarely ever ask for anything. And then over time they're asking me, you know, how can I serve? When is the next Bible study? When is the next chapel? I'm learning, I'm growing. Uh, but it, it starts with relationship for sure. Mm-hmm.
It's almost like a new team, you know, almost every year except for the, the guys that, that are the keepers, you know? Mm-hmm. Uh, and so definitely come in. I'm not a multi relational person. I'm a I'm not a singular relational person either. I'm familiar relational, so I'm relational with people I'm familiar with. Well, you can't be like that as a chaplain cuz you're not familiar with it. No. You know, it's a new team every year. And so it's a challenge for me. I go into the locker room challenge myself. Yeah. Go introduce myself to the guys, pass out resources. I'm there to, uh, make sure that they're cultivated from a relationship standpoint. We have bible studies at my house, their houses. I wanna put 'em in comfortable environments and then, you know, just really do what I need to do. There's been some situations that we've faced Yeah.
That have been tough over the years. I remember one was, we had a player pass away at three in the morning in a car accident. And so if you don't have relational equity in those types of moments, when they're on a plane the next day, well it's the same day. Cause it was 3:00 AM we're on a plane at 10:00 AM going to play the Bengals, and they just lost their teammate at 3:00 AM And Jason Garrett comes down to the tarmac where I am and he looks me in the eyes and tells me what's going on. So I'm like, wait, what? And he tells me, you know, you're the chaplain. Get on the plane and, and, and just do what you do. And so boom, you know, those moments hit where they have team issues or players call because their, their mom just passed away and they, they're bawling their eyes out.
They don't know what to do. I mean, we've had Yeah. Guys come in the locker room after games to find out their brother died. I mean, it's just like, you know, there, there's ministry happening all of the time. And if you don't start, um, going hard on your relational equity with those players, then they may be going to the wrong places to try to heal those wounds. And so that's, that's, that's where it starts. And that's been the first several weeks doing that. Mm-hmm.
I mean, when you're anything in life, right?
Yeah.
I mean, that's great in, in the chaplaincy, but also just for your neighbor and for my neighbors and for anybody. It's, that's a great encouragement and reminder that even just in our relationships and, and even if, if really the big point of scripture is for us to be able to love one another really well, that's anybody at any time. That's
Right.
Yeah. Just like, there's an interesting awareness just even walking down the street, walking my dog that there's a different awareness that I could walk with practice going, oh, you know what, I'm, I'm, I'm creating equity not to like do something and like get them into my Christian club, but just so that I can love people really well. That's right. At some point if need be.
Yeah. Well give them the opportunity to respond. But we are just being obedient.
Yeah. Hmm. Yeah. That's really good. Yeah. Hmm. I love that. Um, as far as like mental health stuff that you see with these guys and just now that you do what you do and all the 8,000 things that you do and you're kind of working, you work with your dad as well at, at the church, is that correct?
That's right. Yeah. I work with him at the church with men's ministry, young adults and I'm overall of next gen. So young adults, youth and children. So I serve there.
So what patterns do you see in that world? And then I just have a question with mental health stuff too.
Well, yeah. So you mean in the, in the world with my dad in church world.
Yeah. I mean you're, because you're, you're dealing with a lot of humans so that that first part was, uh, in the sports world. Yeah. But now that you're dealing with a ton of men in a lot of different places in life mm-hmm.
Hmm. Yeah. Absolutely. I think, uh, that it's important, especially when you're dealing with, uh, with young people, I'll start with young people, is we just spent a lot of time on Id identity mm-hmm.
And so we try to lay down, uh, what it is to be a trends setter, uh, as it relates to being a follower of Jesus Christ. And we try to lay that down in, in the home, but also lay that down, uh, just in the ministry as well. So we spend a lot of time on that because that's what the main thing that kids struggle with. Yeah. And so with our, with our men, a lot of times we just deal with a lot of passivity. Um, we just deal with a lot of passivity and being who God has called them to be in the workplace, whether it relates to the gospel, not just at home Right. Or with their wife, but just as it relates to discipleship, as it relates to taking on being pillars in the community, being pillars in the church. Uh, because the reality is in the church, the women are everywhere.
You got women serving everywhere, going everywhere, doing this, doing that. If we do anything, we don't even have to say much. Women are showing up. Yeah. And they're showing up to help. They're showing up to serve with men. It's like, you know, it's like you gotta put a bit in their mouth and try to figure out how to, you know, you know what I mean? Yeah. We gotta ride 'em. And so why is it that way? Well, since the garden, we're passive standing there letting things happen when God has put us in the position to protect, to provide, um, to cultivate, and we're not doing those things and that's when things fall apart. Mm-hmm. And so, uh, we really spend a lot of time, uh, challenging our men to show up and show out in every area of life as an individual of family, uh, at the church and the community at large. Those are the areas, those are the quadrants, uh, that we challenge them in.
How do you get, how do you get around? I love that. How do you get around it just becoming a religious duty. Hmm. Does that make sense? Yeah. Like, it can just become, it can just become Okay guys, now it's time to just let's do the good things, the right Christian things. A checklist. Yeah. A checklist. Is there a way to get around that? And who, is there somebody we need to say hi to at the, your place?
Right,
It, but
She's good. She did the whole, she did the whole back away thing.
I gave her,
I gave her this right here, like I'm interview. Um, but yeah, so all of Christian life can become that way. I mean, if it's, if it's a, if it's a religion and not a relationship, then you're always gonna struggle, uh, with that. And so really, um, we want to teach it from the concept of relating with your wife, um, relating with your husband, relating with your children, relating with God. Mm-hmm.
And so it's the development of the relationship. And if you're beginning to get tired outside of physical tire, we all get tired and need rest, things of that nature. God made the Sabbath for the man outside of that regular thing. There, there may be a relational equity issue, uh, that we have to deal with and talk about because this is becoming monotonous. The way that you love your wife should not become monotonous or not become mundane because you love your wife. Right. And so, at the point in which, you know, there's a woman, uh, we always tell the story of a woman who, you know, she was kind of mandated to do these things for her, her guy that she was dating, and he was asking for this, asking for that, and she just hated it. He had the list, literally. Then she breaks up with him, gets married to the other guy, she throws the list somewhere. And, and, uh, the other guy's just loving on her, relating to her, dating her, all of those things, affirming her, doing all those, those those things. And she looks up one day and she realizes that she was doing the previous list that she hated, and she was doing the previous lift. She went and found the list and laughed that, how am I doing these things now unknowingly when I hated them before? Well, you have a different relationship.
Right, right.
You just have a different, you're in a different space and a different relationship. And so, and so that's what we spend time doing is just relating with God and, and teaching how to do that and, and, and letting that habits perfect work versus working for the relationship.
Hmm. Man, that's a great description for that. Mm-hmm.
Yeah. I think you see the three line, even through the first part of our conversation with your family walking through this, like, one of the first things you talked about was like, we got together and we communicated through this, like relate the relationships. Mm-hmm.
I'm, I'm right there with you, man. It's
Great. Definitely.
Except for the bold part. I wish, I wish you would've, he would've really gone with me on that part.
Okay.
Uh, pet peeve,
Boo. Um,
Pet peeve.
Yep. That's what I said.
Ooh. Yeah. Being out of balance. Uh, like literally physically or actually
Both.
Yeah. I like that. Yeah. Ooh, that's a great answer. Mm-hmm.
John. John.
John. John. Do you like that?
Yeah. They still use it. Okay.
Uh, maybe a ti maybe a twinge. Yeah. Yeah. Because it comes from the family, but I don't trip about it.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Not, I'm sorry. I'm not speaking from experience or anything. Okay.
Most used
App. I'm, I'm gonna take the Bible out. Out just so you're not, uh, feeling like you need to be a really Christian
YouTube. Okay.
Yeah. Okay. The YouTubes, uh, bucket list.
Oh, uh, I gotta go to the Olympics, uh, with my wife, um, we, we were sports people. Go to the Olympics, sit and watch a Super Bowl, and then the last thing would be to spend time in Italy.
Ooh. I like it. Mm-hmm.
That's bucket list later. I mean, I, I'm going to Israel for the first time next year, so I already know
That's Ooh, that's nice. Oh, nice. Awesome. Well, uh, something you're currently rethinking in
Your life. Oh, um, that's a good question. Just
Questioning, just kind of going, huh? I I wanna rethink this.
How I'm being a father.
Ooh. Daily. Yeah. Daily. Uh, current artist or song and repeat.
Oh, um, bless me. Kirk Franklin in Maverick City.
Yep. Yep, yep, yep, yep. Uh, last one. The nineties.
The nineties. Michael Jordan. Shh.
Swish. I like it's true. He swed every one of those. Yeah. Swed. All of 'em. Dang it.
He passed the test.
Thank you.
Um, when, when are all your things coming out? How, how can people join you in the stuff that you're doing? Mm-hmm.
Awesome. Love it. Great. Appreciate you man. Great to meet you. Thank you for being with us. Thanks,
Man. No, I appreciate it. Thank you for having me.
Uh, hey, if you've listened this long, thank you. Uh, we love you and we're grateful for you. I'm curious of what you heard in this podcast or any of them. Mm-hmm.
You're just, just finishing each other's sentences.
Oh, wait, a witness. Moy guys. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ah, man. Yeah. 10,000 men. I'm the
Little siblings that they're like, he did it. Okay.
Many who's
Literally what my six year old says all the
Time.
Not my fault. Nuts. Exactly. He did it. Yeah. Yeah. That's it.
But it's kind of true sometimes in my family
And sometimes it is true. Okay. But I don't care.
Okay. Anyway. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, what'd you guys think?
I liked him a lot.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's, he was really awesome. He
Was great. I thought the conversation could have been gone in a lot of different ways and Right. I think his perspective on things was really great. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Moi. I, no, I think it was great. I think
Any takeaways for you?
I'm always thinking about who is this conversation for? And I think this is a very important and necessary conversation for men, um, especially those who might be walking through something and they don't really know how to take care of themselves. Mm-hmm.
Thank you.
You're right. Yeah.
So I'm really, I'm, I'm really thankful that he was very honest with, in a sense, encouraging people to slow down Yeah. To rest. Yeah. Um, to communicate where they're at. Not, not just with God, but with the people around them. I thi you know, I think it has a lot of freedom in it. Mm-hmm.
Yeah. You have any other thoughts? Mo I just swed it. You totally switched it. One thing I loved was that he talked about being present for the guys that he are on the teams. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. No, it was great conversation.
Uh, so if you guys have any other thoughts, uh, let us know. Things, questions, things you want talked about, discussed. Um, if you wanna learn some stuff, we'll bring some experts on with those things. So thank you for supporting what we're doing. Yes. Those of you who are doing it every month. Thank you. And the one time people. Thank you. Um, if you guys want to get the text messages, text 10 K one zero k to 5 5 6 78. Once again, 10 k to 5 5 6 78. And we'll send you's free shipping and handling. It's free shipping and handling, and a free guitar.
Yo. Yo, I need to sign up,
Yeah. Uh, I need a new guitar, guys. Thank you. Thankful for all of you. Okay. Yes. Thanks to you too, by the way. Oh, thanks, waving again. It's waving again. We'll see you soon. Bye.