10000 MINUTES

213: Chad Karger on Slowing Down Every Day, Walking Alongside People in Need, and Learning Your Own Story

Episode Summary

Counselor Chad Karger from Porter’s Call walks us through the importance of learning your own story, walking with people over fixing them, and slowing down every day to practice mindfulness. Tangent included: Everyone’s pet peeves when flying…
 Practice: Slow Down to Practice Mindfulness (journal/meditate/stillness)

Episode Notes

Episode Summary:
Counselor Chad Karger from Porter’s Call walks us through the importance of learning your own story, walking with people over fixing them, and slowing down every day to practice mindfulness.
Tangent included: Everyone’s pet peeves when flying…


Practice: Slow Down to Practice Mindfulness
(journal/meditate/stillness)

If you’ve found this or another practice helpful, let us know at mail@10000minutes.com and we might include your story in a future episode!


Show Notes:
Porter’s Call: https://www.porterscall.com 

--------------------

JOIN us as we join Jesus all week long:
2 Free Encouraging TEXT MESSAGES that go with our episodes!

TEXT: 10k
TO: 55678

FOLLOW US on our socials!
Instagram
Facebook
TikTok
Twitter
YouTube Channel
EMAIL

DOWNLOAD our FREE E-Book
DONATE to 10000 MINUTES

www.10000minutes.com

Episode Transcription

When I think about my life too, when I'm not doing the things that are good for me, it's, it's shortsightedness. Mm-hmm. , it's reactionary. It's, I don't have time for that. It's a devaluation, a lack of vision. And so when I get into a better space, I have a better field of vision, I have a proper evaluation. You know, I can see the things that are important to me more clearly. And then that inspires me to engage in those little incremental things that add up to the best version of myself that day down the road.

Hey everybody, Tim Tim's here with the next 10,000 minute podcast Today. We've got, uh, Tim Timmons. We've got Chris Cleveland. Hey guys. We've got a Moy Denise. Hi. We're all sitting on the same side of the table and we are just talking Now with your significant other. I'm

The same side of the table. Are you? You? Yeah, I am. I'm that guy.

Okay. I'm not judging you. I'm just maybe I know, it's weird.

It's like countercultural from even how I would judge people. Yeah. I'd probably judge the couple that sits on the same side, but we do.

And you're having a meal together and you're looking at each other's sideways like this. Yeah. Hey babe.

I don't think it's always now, but, but we're some

Sex. Yeah. Like cafeteria style.

Cafeteria style or like on little benches. Yeah.

Like,

Yeah. Do you prefer a side, a side sit or a, a front face sit,

You know, you know so many different sits, huh? Yeah.

Might depend on the, yeah.

I think I prefer 'em to the side. Yeah. Like, bam. Bam. That's preferred. Ah,

So interesting.

Well, if you wanna know how we got this well adjusted, today's podcast is for you.

Yes. It's so true, everybody. So, um, you're gonna hear about our issues today. So we have, uh, Chris and I's therapist

Yeah.

Is on today. So Chad Carer is on, and uh, it's such a good conversation. Oh yeah. We just did it. People, so it, it's like fresh

Mm-hmm.

. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . Um, and he told Chris a lot of things about Chris's life that are wrong. And I feel better because it's all the stuff that I've seen, we've seen for years. It's

Disgusting. I've been practicing all these things.

I think you heard the word Chris. I heard the word

Tim with the devil. Everybody. It was more of a Tim Timmons going, here's why I suck. Help me. So, uh, yeah, we basically got free therapy today, we're done. And I said about

Four words and just took it in .

And then when I was four, um, but I think you might even get a free therapy.

Yeah. It's so

Good session today because it's that good everybody. Mm-hmm.

. It's that good. So after you listen to it and you get that free session, if you'd like to donate, you can donate to 10,000 minutes

. So true. Actually, I will say, I'm

Just given the segue.

You're doing so great. You're doing so great. Um, I will say this, that, uh, if you do want to support 10,000 minutes, please do that. Thank you. For those of you who have already been supporting 10,000 minutes. Yes. Really thankful for you. Really. And then if you wanna support what Chad's doing, uh, you can go to Porter's call. I don't even know if it's, it's gonna be the show notes. Yeah,

It's gonna be the show notes. It'll be in the description. It's

Low. It's worth supporting, because what they do is they are therapists for, uh, recording artists. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. in this town and their spouses and significant others. So, uh, we get, I get, I get therapy for free, basically. Yeah. Pretty much any who you guys, you're gonna love this. So good. Bye.

Hey everybody, this is Moi. Sadly, some of our video footage is missing today, but we promise that our conversation with Chad is an amazing one. We thank you for your understanding.

We've got Chad Carter. Yeah. It's great to hear. And I just, I just clarified your last name. Carter. I appreciate you doing that because you're my therapist and Chris's therapist. And I don't call you by your last name. I call you Chad.

I just wanna say Mother. And I told Tim how to say your name before you came in. So I would

Like the, I just, I wanted to say it right? Cause I could totally say Krieger, you're

Snitching, we're

Fighting. But you, you said thank you and I I did. And that's what,

Wanna take the credit? Yeah. Yeah.

No, thank you, Chris. Thanks,

Man.

Can you read Chris right now? Why is he such a douche? Is it ? Is it possible

This podcast gonna be too long? . I was thinking about you coming in today, Chad, and I thought, you know, you have this, uh, doctor patient confidentiality, but we don't. That's right. So, um, you

Can tell all

A lot of my friends have talked about you Yes.

Behind your back.

Because so many of us come see you. Yeah. I was actually with a friend this weekend and he was like, we're talking about Stephanie. He's like, do you see Chad? I was like, yeah. .

Yeah, I do. Oh man.

And then

We just took my name in

Vein. Totally. He is the worst. And that's generally what comes out of her mouth. Yeah. So everybody, uh, you don't know Chad carer. Mm-hmm. . Um, and that's how you say his last name. Chris, just if you Yeah, thank you. Just curious if you know,

I was, I wasn't sure.

Uh,

Uh, because Chad works for

Porter's Call.

Porter's Call. And Porter's call is a nonprofit that mm-hmm. does what

Porter's call exists to provide care and counsel to touring artists and their loved ones spouses, uh, partners has been around for 21 years. Um, and all the counseling that we do is, uh, free of charge. The industry basically underwrites

Yeah. Like label, like our labels actually pay.

They, they just donate. So like, wow. We, so from the very beginning, the origin story really quickly was Al Andrews, our founder, was a in private practice here in Nashville or in Franklin. And a couple of record label executives came to him and said, can we basically buy your Wednesday and your Thursday? Huh? And then just clear that out on your schedule and point artists that need help towards you. And he said, yeah, we can try that. And so basically they did that and, uh, they it to all artists in town, not just their artists. Mm. So the very act of that generosity was at the very beginning. Wow. And then it just kind of took off from there. So it's practice basically closed and then opened as Porter's call. So now he's the founder. I'm one of the porters. Uh, and there's two other, uh, porters as well there. And

Chris and I come calling a lot

And they come That's good. Porter's call. That's good.

Yeah. So, I mean, you see a bunch of people. Yeah. You've seen a ton of artists.

Yeah. That's all I see. Or the spouse or partners of those artists. Mm-hmm. . So sometimes, you know, a lot of times I meet with men mostly. So a lot of times it's a husband of say their wife Right. Is the artist. Yeah. But yeah.

Who's the most jacked up talked . I just, I felt like this would be a good shot.

Good shot.

What, what does the rhyme win? You don't have to say it, but

Jim,

I mean, it could be you letter, so I'll figure it out. So I, I've told you this in the office, but my mom's a therapist as well. Yeah. And she's actually been on the podcast and she's amazing. No pressure. But I'm al always, we're always as kids going, oh, that's a great story. But what was, what was her name again? Mama. You know, just always trying to get her Timothy Timothy, you don't, you know, I can't do, you know, just,

I get that too. So

Too good. From your

Family, from my family, from friends. Yeah. So it's kind of a parlor game, you know, once people hear about,

So you're saying I'm a cliche . That's totally ok. It was very predictable

What you just did.

Dang it. Dang it. That's

The best part, because I feel like when most of us are from name rural town in America mm-hmm. Or something like other places mm-hmm. , we all move here. We all feel real isolated and alone and unique in, for me, Tulsa, Oklahoma, right? Mm-hmm. . Then we move here and it's like, oh, get in line . You got the same story as everybody else.

Yeah. You

Know, that's too good.

Yeah. Cool joke. Wow. That's funny. Yeah. Wow. That was really funny.

. That's true. I, I do, I think part of the thing that I'm, I wish that all my clients could see is the community, though. I, that's there's this larger community of people kind of struggling with similar issues mm-hmm. , because all I do is work with people in that industry, Uhhuh, . And I oftentimes want to kind of open the door behind me and say, no, look. Yeah, you're in a good way. You're not the only one right. In this space. You know? Mm-hmm. . And, but I have that view. And like, I have a, a group of guys that I meet with. I do have one group, um, that I do. And so they get that more. But, you know, I think I saw almost like 250 individual artists in 21. Wow. Wow. So it's like, I, you know, and I'm just one of the three. So there is, I do have a view there that I'm always trying to figure out ways to, to the person in my office, like, Hey, you're not alone. Which is, you know, a big deal in this industry. Cause it is very isolating.

Totally. Yeah. I mean, you can for sure use my name. Okay. in saying he is the worst. Actually, I, I was with my friends this summer, and, uh, I've got, I have friends That's great. Some friends, but they're friends that, you know, it's the friends that've known me my whole life, those people mm-hmm. . And, um, it doesn't matter. But there was, there was a friend who had a, had a dad who was a, a dentist. And guys, my teeth when I was a kid were legit. I mean, it was like, they were just straight out . Everything was like, who goes who? You guys do it. But I was confident enough to be like this, who's pretty cool, you know, like, uh, and I don't know, you could whistle whatever, . And, um, I, I'll never forget him going, man, those are the worst teeth I've ever seen in my entire life. . And I'm sure he told his clients like, you know what, yours are pretty bad, but my best friends are the worst. So if you would

Honesty like that, wow. Almost. You just can't, you know, find that very, yeah. That's, and

I feel better about myself today, . That's why I laugh our go. I closed photos before I laugh today. . Um, okay. So one of the questions for you Yeah. And I love asking this of people who are dealing with people all the time and a, a specific group of people mm-hmm. is what do you learn about people? I mean, so if you see 250 humans and they're kind of bearing their soul Yeah. To you, like, what are some of the themes and the things that you see on the regular that like, man, I just see this and I see this and I see this. So as for Chris and I, we travel the country, churches mm-hmm. , and we really get a different view into the church mm-hmm. , because you see, you know, 200 churches mm-hmm. Uh, communities, and you go, gosh, you can see where some of the holes are. Yeah. And some of the places where they've gotten tripped up or we as a community have gotten tripped up. So do you have any thoughts on that?

Yeah, man, I, it's probably, it is not just one thing. So the, when I think about, you know, common themes like that, I just, there's a lot of different ones that come to my mind, but probably one of the very first things that comes to my mind is that people, um, are really hard on themselves. Mm-hmm. and, and, and the not just necessarily like negative talk on themselves, but just disregard the care mm-hmm. that they need to do the thing that they're doing to live the life that they're living. And so in that way, they're, that, that's definitely a thing. So no matter what specific thing we're gonna deal with in time with a particular person, one of the things you're just turning up the volume on is like the idea that taking care of yourself, being aware of yourself is, we've gotta start there, you know? Mm-hmm. mm-hmm. , I just generally people come in like, minimizing. Yeah. Can you give

An example?

I mean, suppressing, um, so whether it's like they minimize, like how much stress they're carrying. Mm-hmm. So they're, their, their sense of their payload is like off mm-hmm. , they're, they're like the truck that occasionally you see driving down the road that they've put way too much in the back. Yeah. And they're like, on a road trip, you're just like, this isn't gonna end well, you're not gonna get very far, you know? Mm-hmm. mm-hmm. , someone needs to come and help you unload or get a bigger truck or something. Mm-hmm. . So always tell people when they come to my office, it's like those, those scales on the side of the road, like where the semis pull off and weigh, you know, occasionally, it's like mm-hmm. this, we're gonna get a proper reading of actually the, the payload. Yeah. Mm. Because especially with the artists, that that's a huge issue that they're carrying a huge payload that they maybe are underestimating kind of a subtext in there is like, you don't have a real job anyways, so you don't work that hard, so what are you want it about? So then they just boom, boom, you know, compress, compress, compress. Right. But, um, so that's a big, that's,

Are there, are there ways that people, so most people who are listening to this are not artists mm-hmm. . Um, are there ways that we can do this with friends? I mean, therapy is so helpful. I mean, it just straight up so helpful mm-hmm. , but are there things that you encourage people to do on their own or with other friends that are kind of the diagnostic tools, if you will?

Yeah, I mean,

Just even in that, in that, that vein. Yeah.

I mean, you're right. Like, I think this is definitely a universal thing. I, I don't think this is, uh, what I'm saying about people underestimate not take care of themselves is not particularly too just artists. I think this is something that we all kind of will tend to do at different seasons in our life. So diagnostic kind of work is, yeah. There. I I think what you're asking me is like, are there practical things that people can do in their everyday life outside of the therapist's office that help them key back into

Yeah. I mean, so if that's like, if that's a normal area where you just see our whole community mm-hmm. , which is a broad group of people Yeah. Um, all struggling with mm-hmm. , are there things that you would want to say to them and help them to rethink their thinking on?

Yeah. I think, you know, my first thought is like, if I can get them to, to begin to listen to kind of what they're telling themselves, the narrative, the voices, you know, so different ways of doing that would be like journaling and meditation. Those are the first, those are usually the first two prescriptions, you know, that I offer a person is like, and, and not, not that I don't want them sitting down to write, you know, nonfiction tell law, like journal. I just, I need for you just to key into like what's going on side of you mm-hmm. . And by writing it and kind of getting it outside of your head, you're like, oh, well, I'll say that a lot to myself. Mm-hmm. I think that a lot to myself. Mm-hmm. , I, I kind of meditate on that Right. Idea. That's pretty corrupt a lot.

And I need to rethink that. Mm-hmm. . So that cognition, like taking control of these thoughts that are just kind of rolling around and roaming around side of their head is, you know, journaling and in meditation is, can be extremely helpful in that way as well. It's, it can be really difficult, um, because there's so much to do and so little time to do it. So sitting down to meditate seems like a luxury they can't afford mm-hmm. . But with practice you, that mindfulness really comes, you know, that's kind of the goal is mindfulness. That would be the goal. That's the muscle you're trying to exercise, as it were to counterbalance this idea that we don't take care of ourselves, we're not aware of the payload. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. So I know that mm-hmm. , like I know that to be true. That that is actually, actually, personally, I know that journaling is so helpful for me. Like, that's such a gift. Mm-hmm. for my soul. Um, but I don't, why don't we, when we know, when we know, man, gosh, this is so helpful for me mm-hmm. for us, I mean, how many things are like, I mean, this is just one example of mm-hmm. a million things, but what is it in us and what are the questions that I need to be asking? By the way, this is basically us just getting free therapy just FY . Uh,

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's the million dollar question. There's, you know, it's interesting right now, like if you go to Amazon or to a bookstore and you just look at some of the popular non-fiction self-help books, it's things like how to be happy. Right. How do you change, you know, it's like, and I think it's really getting at this idea of, of stuckness, A lot of these books talk about, um, that one of the books that I reference a lot is a book called Atomic Habits. And he talks about kind of the incremental approach to change. So I, I guess the failure, the breakdown when, you know, this is a good exercise, but you don't do it, uh, kind of gleaning some, you know, knowledge from these different sources that I'm sort of referencing here is the idea that it's, it's a failure of, I guess, vision.

Like, you wake up, you realize like, I really probably should carve out some time to sit down and do that before I really engage the day. But something in your mind says, no. The most important thing is to rush out the door and get on with it. Mm-hmm. . So to me, that's a failure vision. That's a failure of like an appropriate coordinate. Like you, you, you don't see actually the really the true task at hand. And so helping a person slow down on the regular, and this is where therapy really does come into play. You can tell someone at a dinner party, you should journal more and maybe meditate. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Whereas the therapy really, that really slows that person down on a regular basis and helps 'em see how they're not doing that, why they're not doing that, and then how to engage that.

It's an hour of intentional time. Yeah. You're basically just putting on the parking break. Yeah. And so, to me, I guess that's when I think about my life too, and I'm not doing the things that are good for me, it's, it's shortsightedness. Mm-hmm. , it's reactionary. It's, I don't have time for that. It's a devaluation, a lack of vision. And so when I get into a better space, I have a better field of vision, I have a proper evaluation, you know, I can see the things that are important to me more clearly, and then that inspires me to engage in those little incremental things that add up to the best version of myself that day down the road. Yeah.

So, so what enables that thinking, like seeing all the people you, you meet with mm-hmm. , is it something learned? Is it, yeah. Um, because it's just more common in our world what exactly enables or like the back end. Mm-hmm. encourages you to get out the door mm-hmm. and not value slowing down.

Yeah. This is the other thing that I was thinking about when you asked me, like, what's a common theme is that the, the the other kind of related to that is a, a an unknowing or a lack of knowledge or awareness about what drives us. And more specifically like history and more specifically family of origin. Mm-hmm. . So that's where when you start really seeing deep-seated habits that you're in that territory mm-hmm. . And again, that's the kind of thing that probably on your own, you're gonna have a harder time unearthing than having someone who Digging. Digging, yeah. Just say, Hey, hang, slow down. Stop there. Go back to what happened there. Yeah. What did they say to you? Who was there? What you know. Hmm. Um, so there's a lack of knowledge there simply about how we got to where we're at that's fueling us forward.

It's inspiring us, as it were. Maybe not always healthfully mm-hmm. mm-hmm. in bad ways. So that's kind of the Pandora box. That question you're asking when we get to that. Like, why do I keep doing this? Well, that's a good question. And so really quickly, I mean, in my sessions, I'm in stories, people's histories relatively fast. Like, I wanna get back to zero to 10, 10 to 15, 15 to 20. Right. I wanna see all those age segments and hear people, places, things, circumstances, because that's all gonna be grist for the mill for me to understand what is causing them to get stuck in the, the moment. Right? Yeah. So

You did just say gr for the mill . , that's

Therapy talk.

Yes. Yeah. A special word.

Just like that's gonna be what,

Like grease?

Yeah. Or,

Or is gr an actual

Word? Sure. We can do grease for the will as well. gr for the mill is,

Yeah. Don't correct the therapist. No,

I'm, I'm, I'm trying to understand.

This is, we'll, we'll have to look that up. But that is actually

Gr is it gr,

G r i s t for the mill mill. Like you're, mm.

Yeah. You guys didn't know that . Oh, please,

Please. That makes me wanna look it up. . Ok. This

Makes me feel like grist would be like effort to get the will going. And Grease would be like the thing that makes it easier for it to spin

Or, and grist milk grind, cereal grain to flour in Middlings. Uh,

Gosh. And you know what the good, I know what middlings are. . You guys go That's

Right. All of our

Listeners and I really got this.

You're right. They're like idiots. That's where

We're gonna make to cereal. That's where we're gonna make the thing. So if you don't get anything else from this podcast today,

Chris Mill, Chris. So sorry. Uh, oh gosh. Cheers. That's, that's what I do. I I had a great question on the other side, but I was like, I can't let grist go cause I didn't know what that meant.

for I'll use Grease next time. No,

No, no, please. It might be the exact opposite of what you're saying. Cause Grist feels for

I feel like grease for the wheel. Mm-hmm. Grist for the mill, grease for the wheel.

That's what I always say. Let's go

Every morning, .

Okay. Back to the will

History and story like that to me is, okay, so

Here's my question, right? Um, is there a way that just civilians, we're gonna call ourselves civilians Yeah. On this side of the table. Okay. , uh, that we can, is it like in journaling, do you do that then? Are there certain things if I was journaling and I didn't have a, you mm-hmm. , let's say mm-hmm. , um, or friends, or, I did have friends, you guys are my friends, right. , um, that we could journal or somehow get to those places and be curious about certain words that we're using, or are we just too close to our own story to be able to stop and see some of the patterns?

I think sometimes we are, I, I do think that, and so we do need people who are prompting us, prodding us, antagonizing us, maybe mm-hmm. mm-hmm. , um, to, to dig deeper. I, I think there are, you know, there just simply like checking out the box. I journaled obviously that maybe is not getting it done. Mm-hmm. . Um, there's a, there's a book called The Artist Way that a lot of, I find a lot of artists have read, and it's been around for a long time. And I think one of the very first exercises that she promotes in the book is called Morning Pages. Yeah. Which is basically just kind of like word vomit. Like you just, you're not actually writing coherent sentences, you're just unloading the stuff that's stockpiled in your mind since the day before and you're just putting it down on the page ever. How long that takes, you know, in terms of pages. And you're starting there just like offloading. And so a lot of times artists will talk about that exercise by just, you know, writing whatever's there. They start seeing maybe that day or over time themes that are emerging mm-hmm. . And that ends up coming into my office sometimes. Are

You looking, are there certain things you're looking for, or are there words you're looking for? Are there like things that, when you're asking these like zero to 10 questions mm-hmm. , uh, age, are there certain questions that you're asking?

Oh, yeah. So I'm looking for like this, this actually, I'm always trying to give credit where credit due, because I don't really have an original thought inside of my head. It's all, I'm, I'm just standing on the shoulders of everybody that I've learned from. Yeah. So my boss actually, uh, Al was one of my professors, and he has some really interesting work that he's done around story and, and helping people understand their story. So like, I look for places of like, where people talk about he, the word he uses innocence, where, where they think back in their story, where it was just like that moment as a child where you're just like, this is, you know, playing down by the pond and my friends and skipping rocks and just, you're just like, this is the whole entire world and it's beautiful and safe and I love it. So I listen for those kinds of, you

Know, where was innocence.

Yeah. And then, and then of course o obviously the world is troubled Yeah. And difficult and broken. So in due time that child will experience some sort of tragedy, a loss of that innocence. Mm-hmm. That's a significant marker somewhere in that timeframe. Um, and then not soon after, not long after that person, we go through tragedy. We have to figure out a way to live in light of like the systemic brokenness. Wow. So he calls that contending the way we contend with the world, with ourselves, with others. So we create a plan coping mechanisms, like that's a significant part of the story. Mm-hmm. Um, and then obviously that's

Part of contending. Yeah.

And, and then what you're helping a person move to is maybe emerge from the contending sort of broken coping strategies to more full like redemptive reconciled place with themselves and others in the world. Mm-hmm. , even though the world continues to falter mm-hmm. and other people will fail them and they will disappoint themselves. There is a better way maybe than just the reflective way that you contend it as a result of the tragedy. Yeah. So like those, wow. Those little chapter or those markers or those can prompts can help people as we're working through those different timelines, segments, really think through like, you know, kind of help organize thought. Yeah. And so, um, yeah. I mean that's, it's been helpful to me mm-hmm. , you know, I can definitely use those words and go back in my story. And the thing is, is innocence isn't just something that you experienced when you were 10.

Playing down by the pond with your friends innocence is something that moment that, you know, my first child came into the world, that's a moment of pure innocence where you're just like, this is the whole entire world. Yeah. This is the center of the universe. Yeah. Hmm. And, um, of course, you know, not long after that that you know there's gonna be trouble. Mm. And so that, that those are important markers mm-hmm. . And I think paying homage to those, reading those, listening to the, everybody has that, right? Everybody has those things in their story. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. And, uh, that's the other thing. I just love hearing people's stories and I love getting them to appreciate their story as this unique, like, no one else is telling this story. This is my unique story and there's something I can learn about myself. Again, why am I in this space mm-hmm. presently the way I am from what's happened to me up to this point. Yeah. You know? What, uh, what

Themes do you see about people on how they see god?

Hmm. That's a great question. And I did note, like, that would be one of the things, spirituality and faith, especially we are in Nashville and there's a huge segment of the population that kind of, that's kind of the culture like mm-hmm. , Christianity, the church. Um, and then there's specifically like worship, Christian music, right? Mm-hmm. , that's all in play. So this is a pretty frequently, if not a direct, you know, topic, it's definitely in the room. Yeah. Oftentimes. And, um, it's, I feel like we're in such a, a moment with this topic, especially inside of the community of faith and, um, inside of the church. I, I guess just a lot of the deconstruction mm-hmm. and rethinking and turning over and that that's makes it feel like such a, everything's kind of still up in the air right now. It's hard to answer that question Exactly cuz it just feels like such a, a live topic, a live wire.

Hmm. Um, but, you know, I go back sometimes in my mind when I'm talking to people and, you know, some of my very early education in psychology and in counseling my, both my undergrad and master's degree, I remember reading some of the classic literature, you know, from essentially atheistic philosophers and psychologists about how people project upon God, you know, their own experiences Yeah. Around their parents and their fathers as classic Sigma and Freud. Right. Um, you know, Carl Yung talked about archetypes, you know mm-hmm. , I mean the, so I definitely find some of that same thing at work. Yeah. So, so you definitely, again, history has a lot to do. It's very persuasive in how we view, come to know and talk about transcendence, you know, eternal being God, I mean that's has a huge influence over that. Um, and because we are in the south more or less, and, uh, that, you know, there's a lot of baggage around that.

Um, you know. Yeah. Hmm. So there's a, there's some serious distortion. I'm on the one hand very grateful that people are really taking stock and stopping and thinking about mm-hmm. , how did I arrive at these beliefs and what is, what am I talking about when I say God? Right. I'm thankful for that. Um, and as a person of faith, you know, that's a really unique space that I sit in as a helper to people cuz not everybody, you know, has that, so I can't always talk explicitly about that Yeah. With everybody. Cause I don't want to talk about that. Yeah. Um, but I always find or the pissed at that concept hurt number. Yeah. That's probably better way to say that. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm like, I just kinda sometimes read the room and figure out, you know, right. This person, how much they wanna talk about this.

Um, but I do my understanding of those topics and things related to the idea of God and the person of who God is and theology and philosophy is we're, we're oftentimes in the room, in my opinion, and closer to that topic than maybe most people realize sometimes. Mm-hmm. , say it another way. Um, they're talking about their purpose. Mm-hmm. , they're talking about what they value, they're talking about meaning, and that's all kind of in close orbit around what I understand when I talk about ultimate questions related to who God is and why are we here and all that. So they're not maybe connecting that topic up with what they're saying, but in my mind it is, we're in that solar system, you know? Yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah. And so sometimes they, I'll have people ask me, like, they'll kind of sort of pull back the curtain and say, how do you answer this question of meaning or purpose?

They're like, well, that's interesting. They just put me on the spot. And so then I just say, well, this is how I do it personally. Hmm. And I can, you know, share that. Yeah. Or it's like, somebody ask me an accounting session, what would you do in this situation? And I will say to them, that's not typically a question that people ask me. Right. And they're like, they're, they're kinda like, oh, really? Hmm. But I, but we're, you're, aren't you? That's what you do. And I'm like, actually, it's not actually what I do. Right, right. Right. I mean, I have all kinds of thoughts and feelings about all kinds of things that people are talking to me about. That's not the time and place to bring all those up. Right, right. That's not why they're there. Hmm. But occasionally someone will just put me on the spot and ask me straight up, you know,

And then, then you use your feeling words. , I feel like you're an idiot. I feel like you're ugly. Yeah.

I feel like we're gonna end this session. Yeah,

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Nuts sometimes , I feel tired of your bologna. Yeah.

Um, I had a question about is there a common why people are deconstructing at least the people that you're working with? Is there a common why or a

Similar related to faith or,

Right, yeah. Or similar situations or experiences in life that have them wanting to deconstruct in therapy. Mm-hmm.

I would say probably it's probably related to that part of their story where there's tragedy or hurt mm-hmm. , like we were saying earlier mm-hmm. that usually they're trying to hold the idea of how they've come to understand God and say they'll say in, say, Christian faith with the pain suffering that they've personally experienced. And then of course, I think unique in this moment in time in our, in, you know, human history, like just the world kind of just seems inflamed, you know? Right. So they're holding that with this idea of, you know, God, and there's a lot of dissonance there Hmm. Of like, these don't really make sense. Right. I've gotta do some work here. Mm-hmm. . Right. And so what they'll do is like, I can't really, I am seeing and experiencing what I'm seeing, experiencing mm-hmm. , the world sucks. Mm-hmm. , so they'll leave that there and they'll go over here and go to work on the deconstructing of mm-hmm.

The ideas, at least related to how they understand God. They just keep working sort of, you know, keeping their eye on their situation until they have something that they feel like lines up with that. Hmm. And so that's a lot of times where I feel, um, uh, people kind of come how they kind of come in with that idea. Yeah. And they're in varying degrees of that. So they've, they've, uh, done away with, you know, some maybe tenants of their Christian faith, like questions about what happens after we die, or how people come to be made. Right. Or whole, you know, they mm-hmm. , they've rethought all that, so they're in varying degrees of rethinking and reconstructing that or tearing that all down. And again, I'm just kind of there reading the room. Yeah. Mm. You know, trying to, just the idea of the porter and back to the name of the organization is the Porter was like the, the layman who lived in the Benedictine monastery, and so he wasn't one of the monks.

So the porter was really there to extend hospitality to people who would stop in the monastery on their way somewhere. So offering them a mill, a place to stop and rest and reflect directions on where they're going. Mm-hmm. . And that's kind of the idea behind the, the name Porter's call that I'm, I'm kind of there to say like, where is this person at and what can I do for them where they're at. Mm-hmm. I don't need to try to get them where I think they should be mm-hmm. , but just try to come alongside of them and help them Right. Where they're at. Mm-hmm. no matter what I think or feel about where they're at, you know? Yeah. And that's sometimes really hard. Mm-hmm. , because I have, I mean, I'm, I have strong feelings and thoughts about particular things, and sometimes I'm sitting with someone that I'm just like, oh man, if you would just do it my way, you know? Mm-hmm. . Um, and that's, I have to really check that Hmm. You know, like that moment,

Because if you said that, what, what would happen? And is that, is that if they lived your way, would that be the best thing for them ? Or do they need to go through the whole thing? I

Think that's part of it. It's, it's a lot like, you know, when we're raising our children, it's like, man, I wish I could just help you not go through what you're about to go through. Yeah. But I think you probably have to mm-hmm. and I'm just gonna be here. Mm-hmm. , I'm not gonna be very far. And you can always get ahold of me and always come home. Yeah. And I think in some ways that's what Port Ridge call is. That's what every counselor is, is like, I wish I could get the map out and show you a different way through this, but you look like you're probably about to go right through the storm, and so I'm gonna be here. You know? And, and, um, other people in their life might be pulling their hair out, going like saying things like, isn't your counselor talking about this? Like Right, right. You know, they're, they're almost thinking like, what are they doing in those sessions?

Right.

Right. Like, they don't, this doesn't seem to be helping them because all I see is them making more and more mistakes. Whereas me, as the therapist is thinking, this is a very slow process. You can't just pull someone in by the caller and say, stop doing that. Change

Your behavior. Yeah. Right.

Yes. It just doesn't work that way. We don't, we don't, that's not how it works, you know? Mm-hmm. . And so I'm in that process of very slow, incremental recognition, knowledge, understanding, and sometimes we're dealing with illnesses as well. Right. Real true mental illness. So simply saying to someone stop doing that is like, that is pretty futile. Right. You know? Mm-hmm. , I mean, you're dealing with a, a, an illness mm-hmm. something that's wrong with their body and mine. So

That is so wild. I just, not to make too much of a tangent, but we're talking a lot about the Bible right now in our community and the accommodating nature of God. Mm. So how God through, even in the Bible, like, you know, Genesis one and two is talking about the man and the woman, man, wife mm-hmm. , and that's coming together. Like that was the ideal Genesis one, two. Mm-hmm. , but then you get to chapter three and everything, you know Yeah. Goes crazy. But chapter seven or page seven, you've got God all of a sudden accommodating for polygamy. You know, he is like, okay, so if you're gonna do this , make sure that you treat your right, your original wife really well. Do not forsake her. I mean, and it's like this wild thing of like, oh, what if, I mean, God has actually been accommodating the whole time mm-hmm. Just like a good parent would. Yeah. It's like, I, I can't change your behavior. I love you. I love you so much. I want Genesis one and two for you.

Yeah.

So bad. Yeah. But I I I can't make you do

That.

Nah, no. It's, and to, for God, I mean, it's actually beautiful. Yeah. If that's truly who God is, that he's one who's been accommodating all this time, kind of just as this beautiful father mm-hmm. or this great counselor True mm-hmm. that is really accommodating for the hearts of his people.

I think occasionally, I, I think that's well said. I I love that idea and that really resonates with me. And then we do have the stories where, you know, God wrestles Jacob, Psalm 23 says, he makes me lie down in green, pastor. You know, there are these moments where he, he, we get into those moments where we're no longer being accommodated, but he is literally imposing himself upon us. And Hmm. And it's kind of that moment where it's the, the moment, it's the change moment, right? Yeah. Mm-hmm. and I definitely experience that in the counseling office. Hmm. It's like, here we are, this is, it's so good, John. You know, it's like we're gonna, we're gonna go down right here. Hmm. This is, we're gonna make this the point, you know? And, um, this is an inflection point. This is a really crucial moment in your story that you have to reckon with. And so you really have to hold that. And that's where they experience me a little bit differently. Hmm. Yeah. Or they're, they're, they walk out angry with me, frustrated, maybe confused mm-hmm. mm-hmm. , you know, so it's a little bit so good. Something different. But it, I think it does reflect the character of God. I, I hope that's the case, you know? Cause I do believe that God is,

Couldn't that be grace and truth? I mean that and the, the best description.

Absolutely. When someone talks to me about biblical counseling, you know, and that whole field and understanding of how to do therapy. That's what I think about is like, I know kind of what they're referencing in terms of like, the idea of who the person is and how a person becomes whole. But generally speaking, to me, biblical counseling is that work of like, holding grace and truth in tension. Hmm. Um, I, I mean, I just have so many different people who come into my office with so many different backgrounds and histories and habits and ways of doing life that if, if I have this thinly prescribed kind of view of reality where I can work, yeah. I'm just gonna be useless. Gosh, to most people. Yeah.

Well, only to a certain few will you work

There? Yeah. I, man, I've got so many different walks of life sitting there. It's a very small community when you think about the general population recording artists. Right, right. And their loved one. Right. That's pretty small. But when you then dive into that community and really look at it, it's very diverse. And there's so many different lifestyles in that community. Yeah. And so, you know, my personal opinion about those is relevant sometimes, but not always. Yeah. Hmm.

. Totally. So, gosh. And what, what an interesting way to just, to walk through life. I mean, I, we wanna be with the people that are like us, that think like us mm-hmm. that work with our way, which is fine, but Yeah. That's a good encouragement. Even just for us, everybody.

Yeah. I think that is normal life. I think that I've thought that too, in this season where everything seems so polarized, I have thought about the work that I do and the habit that is required in that space to be a little bit more patient with something that's other different variation. That, that's actually probably, that's something that like, I need to apply that to other areas of my life, you know? Mm-hmm. . Yeah. And, um, and so I do find that that's, it is helpful and it really, it kind of eases a unnecessary, um, amount of stress. Like when you're, when you're trying to control the world around you and get it to be a certain way Right. Which you really don't have any control over. Mm-hmm. .

Mm-hmm. preach.

It just makes life for you as the person trying to control just really miserable, right? Mm-hmm. , I mean, we have so little control over so many things. Yeah. You

Said that almost every session. I'm like, you know what? Shut, shut your face. Stop. That's fine.

.

Yeah. Delete for memory. You know

What's funny is like, I bring those things up a lot because they're like, the things I'm thinking about in my own life, my kids are all like, scattered abroad. Yeah. And, you know, and, and there's big issues in my own life, so I'm like, man, I just don't have very much control Yeah. Over very many important things in my life. So if I don't have any control, what's the other way I can relate to these things? And the way I, the word I use is respond or be responsible. If I can't control it, I can respond to them or it, and that's, that, that feels important to me. That there's something there that really, um, resonates with me as opposed, as opposed to me, the vision of me, the idea of me trying to control, you know. Yeah. Outcomes. Yeah. Yeah. So that's why that gets talked about a lot in there in

Our last session, which I can share about . Um, I had a lot to share and help Chad with . Uh, he was crying. It was weird as I was doing, you're helping him not

Interject his own.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Chad. No, Chad was, oh my gosh. I, I have not stopped thinking about it, but it's in the same vein when you're basically telling me to slow down, like slowing my, you know, with my kids when things don't go the way that I think they should go. Mm-hmm. or, you know, cause I've got high expectations in life of myself and others mm-hmm. , uh, in certain, certain places in my closest relationships. That's true. Yeah. And you were saying, gosh, every time we speed up, uh, it's just problems. Mm-hmm. like when we're getting angry, that's always speeding. Yeah.

Um, the anxiety is anxiety.

Anxiety is

Speed. Yeah.

Hmm. Yeah. Well, I just wanted you to talk about that a little bit, . Cause it was, it was so helpful just to go, Hey, cause, and then I was telling you, he's like, why don't you, if can you take 10 seconds and just step back and just breathe for a second? Pray, do whatever you need to do, just, just hang out for a second and almost be able to step back and assess what's actually going on. Mm-hmm. the real things that are going on. And I'm like, gosh, I can do that, but it doesn't work because I'm just pissed. I'm sitting there to pretend seconds going, yeah, you know what, that was stupid. He was dumb. That was what he did was stupid. But I'm quiet about it. And he is like, well, that's not really gonna do much for you, unless you replace that with what you're talking about. Yeah.

Right. Yeah. Slowing down. I mean, I, I I just think that's a really helpful, you know, trait or habit to get into, especially when our body and our mind starts telling us like, danger, danger that all those warning lights start going off. Yeah. And it, like, everything just starts revving up. And so to avoid the danger, we start really moving through time and space people really quickly Yeah. To try to cut it off at the pass. And usually that's where we do the most harm to others and to ourself. That's where we usually come back and say, look, I'm sorry. I just totally, I just kind of lost myself in that space. And so, and that's good to be able to do that. I mean, you need relationships where you can come back and say, I messed that up. Yeah. But like, maybe you could do it differently the next time. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You wouldn't necessarily have to ask for the apology, but you could just say like, okay, I need to stop here and just take a second, you know, and get my bearings.

The, the helpful thing was you pushing me past just stopping and getting my bearings, but it was stopping getting my bearings, but also replacing it with compassion. Yeah. Replacing it for myself or the other person, or empathy for myself mm-hmm. Or the other person. And gosh, even in anxiety, that like, deep worry. That's just the speed. I mean, uh, um, an anxiety attack is seems to be

The speeding up,

Like the speeding up of all these things. You literally,

Your body's literally speeding up. You, you don't, you're breathing really shallow. You're breathing faster. Right. Your heart's racing. Mm-hmm. , you're, you know, you're sweating. So it, you're literally, if your body had like an RPM indicator Totally. You'd be revving in the red line. Mm. So it is definitely an i the idea of speed is happening in those spaces because we perceive danger probably where there isn't. Mm. Like, it's just that that's anxiety's actually not the problem. It's just Right. It's calibrated wrongly. Mm. You know, and so we getting that right. Yeah. Entails us listening better, hearing being more patient. Hang on a second, don't freak yet. You know, ,

It's like this, the, the, uh, not the echo chamber, but um, that just cycle when all of a sudden your thoughts go into a place and then it just starts spinning. Oh. But it's in this little box and it like keeps spinning faster and faster. There's no reality to it. Yeah.

Which is

Precise about reality.

I

Remember middle illness, um, oh,

Oh. It's, um, just not accepting reality or not living in reality because you think you can still, uh, have something you can't, you can no

Longer have basically not living in reality or accepting your reality

Anyways. You can't remember what it was was great, Carol. You did a great job. Yeah. I

Mean, yeah.

I remember we remember it. . Um, do I have, I have a million other questions. Right. And this is gonna go, so chatter, you get to be on here again, so, oh, good. Sex to be You love it. Do you guys have any questions before I I

Had one before you.

Oh. I feel like

On when I, we have guests like Chad, like we were Yeah. I just sit back and listen the whole time. I feel like I don't talk at all, but it's because I'm just like trying to get my money's worth or something. I have Did you find it? Yes.

Okay. Go for it. I was gonna say, um, this might not connect mm-hmm. , but is it also the slowing the lack of slowing down in all those things? Is it also because we don't know how to self comfort? Yeah. And so therefore we cope and run to other things. And it might be, um, winning an argument or binging or escaping, but it's, we don't actually know how to self-soothe.

So yeah. That's that whole like, idea of self-care mm-hmm. . So it's like we, you know, that's a great way of saying that. Like, to me, slowing down definitely is a way of kind of sort of turning into yourself and saying, what's going on with me right now? Right. Like, what is really bothering me here? You know? And that requires us to really listen, be more aware, mindful, honest. Yeah. Honest with ourselves. Mm-hmm. . Um, and actually can be helpful then coming back, like, I've done this with my wife. I will come back to her and say, you know, when you see me like that, that look on my face or that energy, I, from what I can tell, this is what's happening for me. Mm-hmm. , like, this is what I'm going for. This is what I'm trying to protect. And when we had that conversation, she's often like, wow, that's, that makes total sense. Yeah. Mm-hmm. mm-hmm. . And so then it's like just being able to call it out like that mm-hmm. , it's like, okay, well that's not actually gonna get me that. Yeah. You know, so I need to back up and find a different approach mm-hmm. mm-hmm. toward this end, which oftentimes is a good end. I'm, I'm usually going for something good. Yeah. Right. But I'm just going about it in all the wrong ways. Yeah.

Right. Chad, one time you, you made this illustration, it was so good about, um, um, ooh, what was it? Um, oh, Timmons. You're killing it. Uh, per first of, I literally, I just did it A person who stutters , you said, I just heard this story about a, a a person who stutters and they're looking for the word.

Yeah. So let's see if I can get it right. Yeah. Cause

I'll, I'll correct

You. Yeah. So I read an, I read an article about, it was when Joe Biden was running for president, cuz he has a stutter. And, and so this guy wrote an article and did Atlantic about this. And he basically talks about how when people have a stutter, there's certain words they know are coming in the conversation or they're gonna have to use that are blocks for them. And so that they, they stutter on those words or those syllables or those sounds or letters. And so as they see them coming in their mind's eye, they have to work around that word. Hmm. And so they're constantly doing that. So someone who's managing their stutter a lot of times will, will slow down in their speech Hmm. So as to be able to work around those different blocks and the conversation, and a lot of times people hearing them, I've had conscious stutter and, and so when you're listening to someone's stutter, sometimes you're, you're, if you don't stutter, you're listening to 'em, you want to jump in and help them say the word.

Right. Yeah. And that's not actually what's going on. They don't, they haven't forgotten the word. Right? Mm-hmm. They're literally doing this mental gymnastics to get around certain sounds. Wow. And I just think it's a really powerful, like I know that a person who stutters wishes probably they didn't stutter, so I don't want to, I, I know that they would change if they could or as they work on that in therapy, but the idea of what they're doing there mm-hmm. like speaking in such a thoughtful way mm-hmm. to even anticipating sounds and words and letters Mm. To then move around it to get to the place where they want to go in the conversation. Yeah. That to me is profound. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's just kind of like, wow, there's people out there doing that. And in some ways that's kind of what we need to learn to do. Mm-hmm. is be better in anticipation of like, this is the kind of situation that trips me up. Mm-hmm. . And I need to right now start thinking about like, my daughter's about to come home. I know what she's gonna wanna talk about. This is a trigger point for me mm-hmm. . And I got to start thinking about that right now as a way to work around and get to a better place, you know? And not just plow through and blow the whole thing up. Right?

Hmm.

Yeah. And in our conversation you used it in a different way, , which cuz I, I just learned something through that. But you used it in a way, in a sense of there's certain things that we, we probably should l work. Oh my gosh. I'm like stuttering as I'm doing this, which is totally fine, , um, that we should figure out how to work through. Mm. But we stop and it stops us. So we're like, Ooh, I'll find another way around that. Yeah. Ooh, that's a mine, a landmine. I don't wanna go there. So we find another way around that. Yeah, yeah,

Yeah.

Um,

And so the person with the work that's working on their stutter, they, they will stop sometimes and they can't work around it, so they have to actually go slow and work through it. Right?

Mm.

And with time they begin to feel more comfortable with those sounds, syllables letters.

Yeah. Yeah. And how many of those places in my marriage Yeah. Or in relationships or in my own life, do I go, oh, don't wanna go there again. Don't wanna feel that I'm gonna go run this. I wanna feel that I wanna go around this. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. That, that story's profound in many ways.

No. Yeah. I can, it works both ways. I just found that I was meeting with someone, it was interesting cuz I had a couple of clients who struggled with that. And then it was during the presidential election and people were talking about Joe Biden like, like he, like he didn't know what he was talking about. Like, he was old because he was speaking slowly, but it was not that, and he just doesn't talk about his stutter very much. And this guy wrote this article Wow. Was kind of making that point. Wow. It's like he's speaking slow because he's doing all those little mental gymnastics to get through the conversation. It's like, wow. That didn't, it's like someone who walks slow. It's so good.

Yeah.

It's like that they're not, it's okay if you walk slow. I just need to slow down. I tend to walk fast, you know? Right. Mm-hmm. or whatever. Mm-hmm.

. Hmm.

Well, I think they should walk faster.

.

So does my wife

My daughter when we, we took her to on her look 13th birthday trip to Boston. And we're like, Hillary and I are just hauling, like we're going on our walks in the mornings, you know, like full on mega speed. And she's like, you guys, can we not walk slow? I was like, damn. No, you will walk with us. We gotta get, we gotta case this down.

Oh my goodness. Places to sing. Yeah.

So just good parenting stuff that I Yeah. That Chad told me to do. Yeah. Yeah. He said force them

Don't listen. Yeah. Don't listen to what they do. Don't compromise. No. Yeah.

If anything does not compromise.

Right. Right. You're right. All

Troll Tim. All truth. Expect Chad, have

You ever met Tom Tomins?

No. He hasn't met Tom

Toms yet. Tom Tomins is Tim Timmons alter ego.

Oh no. He really

Shows up when we zoom. Okay.

One of my stress

When the cameras have to be set up and

When Tim goes into his stress mode and things are overwhelming, uh, Tim becomes, Tom

Disappears. Tom shows up. Yes.

In the Enneagram. If that's your world. I kind of just go straight to the negative part of the one. This is how I see the world. Yeah. Mm-hmm. . And it's, you know, and I'm not lame to people, it's just, you just, if you know me, you're like, Tim's gone. Whoa. Yeah. Yeah. , where's, where's that guy? Where's the guy that we like?

That's so funny. Funny. The do spots here now you're outdoor

Ego. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes.

That's so funny. We're gonna

Talk through that one next day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, um, parts about you guys. Why are you guys dumb?

Chad

Already guys. . Okay, Chad. Yeah. We've got, it's now time for 10,000 thoughts. Okay. So, um, it's funny,

I, I told my wife I'm doing a podcast today. Call 1000 Minutes, but it's 10,000. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 9,000 not, yeah, that's perfect. That's fine. . I wasn't prepared for 10,000. Yeah,

Yeah, yeah. It's be a long day. Day. It's gonna be a long day, but you're gonna do great. Okay. So these are speed round Oh, okay. Things. Well, we're gonna judge you now. Okay. Um, you've been judging us and now it's our turn just to go. Wow. He really avoided that. You know what I mean? That kinda thing. Like slow down, but this isn't slow down time. This is speed up . Yeah. This is quick. Yeah. This is quick. Okay. Okay. First thing you do in the morning,

Um, put my ooah sandals on. Oh, I don't even know. Sauce sandals. Yeah. Yeah. Through these foam sandals. They're right by my bed.

You just put 'em on.

Yeah. Put my feet in them.

I love it. Can you tell us more

? Well, they just like, they're super soft and comfortable. My son gave my, my wife gave 'em to me for my birthday cuz my son owned a pair. Yeah. And my son said, dad will change your life. You wear these. And so I started re re I started wearing 'em. Like, this is amazing. Yeah. It is a little bit like the, with a Wonka guy. It's spelled o o f o s I think.

Hmm.

I'm into it. That's

Awesome. I'm looking,

That's literally, I spin in my bed and put my, put those on like an old man and his slippers.

Oh my gosh. . I love it. Come man. Yeah. I wonder gr gr the grsa mill with those things, you know what I mean? Mm. Okay. Bad habit.

Um, I love potato chips. Mm-hmm. . So it's not uncommon for me to grab a handful sometime around five 30 or six.

Yeah. A handful though. That's not bad. . It's not

A bag full. I mean, I mean, if you, no, it's not a bag full, but like,

Well, what's a bag? I mean, they're lit. There's family size, but we

Had these little plastic bowls in our house that we've had since the kids were tiny. Yeah. And I don't know why we still have 'em, but we do. And they're my designated like chip holder, chip and my kids come home and they're like, they look at me pouring my chips still. Yeah. Like, after 20 years, still pouring like a little thing of chips and they just kind of roll their eyes. Like, dad, something's ever changed. There you are with your chips in the plastic bowl.

Is there a brand that is your kind of go-to? Like, this is

My jam. I mean, no, I Anything You need a crunch? Yeah. Salt starch,

Salt vinegar, I mean any Oh

Yeah. And, and I was just in Canada with my wife her, she's from Canada. We were up there visiting her family and they have like a whole nother chip game up there. Oh, wow. Potato chip. They have like, um, all dressed,

Ooh.

They have, I don't like ketchup, but the ketchup potato chip is, I'm not life changing.

Nope. I just barfed in my mouth. Ketchup.

Ketchup. I, I'm, I'm not, I'm sure

Saying I'm strong. We don't like ketchup. Yeah.

I don't like ketchup that either Canadian friends said. No, Chad. I don't either, but eat the chip. Yeah. . And I did. I'm like, this

Is, I wanna talk to you about peer pressure. ,

I should say. So there you go. That's bad habit.

Wow. Uh, most recent book you've read.

Um, uh, let's see. Probably a Gentleman in Moscow by Amer Tolls. Oh, okay. I'm rereading it. Okay. Because it's so good. It's a novel.

Read it like six

Times. Yeah. Big deal. It's about a man notes. It's about a man who lives in a mo in a hotel. Hotel, yeah. In Moscow. Moscow. Yeah. Yeah. At during the SFI Revolution. Watch your

Mouth continue. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. We don't cuss on this .

It's really, it's really fascinating. It's pretty interesting. Does he die? Uh,

I don't wanna give the end of life

Spoilers. That's such a good book.

Okay. Mountains or beach.

Oh, mountains. Yeah.

I knew that one. You

Got

This tan going on? It looks like a

Beach tan right now. No, I've been in the mountains. Okay. I was in the, I was in the mountains of Utah for a week and then the Canadian Rockies for a week. Let's go. Okay. So I'm like, he's like

Got, he's a buttoned down. Yeah.

He's

Got a little tan down. Yeah. Yeah. Let him, Jasmine,

I'm, I got the glow.

I'm Glow Mountain Glow

Playing for two weeks. All

Did you bring your dog?

No, we couldn't on this trip. Yeah.

It's a total mountain dog. Everybody.

Yeah, she is.

Uh, pet peeve.

Um, oh man, pet peeve. Oh man. See this is this ponytails? No. In

Your therapy office.

? No, no.

Grease versus gr . Sorry. Keep going. I'm just,

I This is a real, this is probably a blind spot for me. Like my wife would if she were sitting there, I'd guarantee you she'd have 'em. She would be like, oh, Chad, this is your pet peeve. But, um, I'm having a hard time answering this because I'm in my mind, convinced myself that I don't have a pet peeve. Okay. See how broken that is? Oh,

Maybe not. So maybe people having pet peeves.

Is your pet peeve, uh,

Dramatic people

? No. Oh, I, I, I heard a guy on this, this is like on the plane the other day and it just for like an hour from Chicago to Nashville. I was just like, oh my God, it's gonna drive me crazy. This guy doing

This. There you go. There you go. There you go. Here we go. He's a safe place. Safe

Place. And he was sucking his teeth.

What? Oh no.

Like that. So like he's sitting right there and my grandfather used to do that and like, he

Had some chicken in his teeth. He had something leftover.

Yeah. But he's just like, and he's watching something, so he is got his ear buzz so you can't hear it,

Hear

It? No. And I'm sitting there in the, I'm like, that's my papa. That's what, what's going on? And I told my wife, I was like, somebody is sucking their teeth. Yeah. So I'm like, now I'm just doing this slow scan. I trying to

Catch it. Oh wait.

Totally.

And I'm like,

That a snap at em.

And I, I really wanted to tell him like, Hey, you got your, and this is really loud. Yeah. We all hear this. You don't.

Chad carer PhD. I just, uh, I just wanna let you know that this is probably regression of some sort. Yeah. And if you ever wanna talk about it, gimme a call.

And was this like a shut the heck? Yeah. Sort of breastfeeding

Thing. Okay. Do you do the thing I do this, you guys, I hate myself for this. I mean, I don't really hate myself, Chad, so we don't need to really get into that deeper . But, but when somebody's like really loud in the plane and they're talking loud or, or they have their, their iPad on like full noise. . Yeah. And I, I look around like, oh, it's funny. Oh, is that you And then I'll kind of like do it again another minute. I'm like, look around like, oh, is that you again? Like with the same look like you're such an idiot. That doesn't

Bother me as much as like the personality that's loud . Oh. You know, like I can cool and stuff. And I'm like, oh. And the three in me wants to like just be, I feel like a little human being. You know what I really wanna do.

But planes actually planes having just spent a lot of time on planes the last two weeks. Yeah. That, that's probably, there's several things going on in a plane that, several scenarios that I would put under my Pet Peeve Academy.

A good sitcom.

There's a lot going on there. And I did fly first class on one of my trips,

Swish

. And so that was kind of an interesting, almost strange, you

Feel better about yourself on your own.

Yeah. Yeah. But the lady sitting next to me and she was looking at some really important spreadsheet about oil and gas. Yeah. And she was, the way she was chewing her gum instead of like just taking out a piece and putting it and put it back in her purse. Yeah. She literally opened the little gum Yep. Container. Yep. And she's looking at these spreadsheets and she's just like popping 'em in like one after another. Like, wow. She chew for a second and then just pop another one in. So

Was she swallowing

Them? I, no, I don't know. But I was like,

We get to where we're going.

She gonna be like a

Yeah. Willy Wonka. Yeah.

Yeah. Like just have like gum ball wadding her mouth.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I was trying to, I was looking like, again, I'm kind of doing the, like you're

Just analyzing everybody.

Totally. What

Is, this isn't

Conversation.

No, I think you're doing great, . I think you're doing really great. We're, we're accommodating. You're totally, I do. This is gonna be a long road for you. Easy. Okay. Okay. Well, and then

We thought we didn't have any Yeah.

Okay. Yeah, exactly. Uh, yeah. Right. Uh, hidden talent.

Um, I mean, I can drive like a off-road vehicle extremely fast in really dangerous situations. Oh

Wow. I don't, haven't, haven't. That's How did you learn that?

Because I was on these, I did this trip last year. Yeah. And I did this trip just recently. This, I go out with this group from Houston, this company, and they go out and do these buggies in the mountains of Utah. The desert in the mountain. Yeah. And I did grow up around, like my dad was big into like, NASCAR and fast cars and drag strips and all that. Mm-hmm. And then he got me into go-karts and motorcycles. So most people in my life now don't realize, like if you put me your motor one Yeah. If you put me in one of those buggies, whoa. Like it's all out. Yeah. Pedal to the metal. A hundred percent.

I'm really nervous and excited .

And so like, I do this work with this company, they bring me out as like a guide and a counselor. And most of them, like last year this happened, this year this happened. They realize like, oh, that's not who I thought you were.

. Right.

Because they get in the buggy with me. Right.

. It's like, wow. I feel safe in your office.

Yeah. I don't, don't feel

Safe here. They're grabbing a little bar on the totally on the

Buggy and you know, we're going 80 miles an hour, you know, around these off Canberra turns and . They're just like, different

Approach. It's different approach. It's a dog. It's more of like, we're

Just going for it. Totally. It's

Very provocative.

Gosh, I wanna have therapy with you in one of those things. , Dr. Leo, Marvin , uh, crazy. Uh, food you can't live without.

Um, food I can't live without. Ah, TexMex. Yes. Yeah. Definitely. Okay.

Yeah. You're a Texas

Guy. I could eat it every day. It doesn't bother me. Tacos, enchiladas. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Queso. Good, good. Uh, salsa. Yeah.

I I actually think God is from Mexico. The mango. Yeah. To be honest. Yeah. Uh, something you're currently rethinking.

Um, something I'm currently rethinking. Hmm. Man, that's a good question.

Something you're currently rethinking.

Probably this is a little bit kind of, you know, my field, but probably like how there, there's a lot of new research on basically where emotions come from. Hmm. Like what emotions are and how, what their purpose is and how they're generated. And so I'm basically, I can see I'm being persuaded by the new science about what those actually are and how much we're involved in constructing what it is that we say we're feeling as opposed to like, I can't help it. I just feel that way.

It's just happening to you.

Right. You make me feel that way. Mm-hmm. This there's

Actually sounds like a whole nother podcast.

Oh my

Gosh. So that's probably me, like, like reading this literature just like, wow. That's not, that's different and it's compelling. Yeah. Mm. So ,

That's, that's John Edwards, uh, Spitzer, that name Right. That article. . Yeah. I've read, I've been doing a lot of stuff.

Really read up on emotions.

Yeah. Yeah. That's, I've gotta, I'll send you a few, few articles. Johnny's great. Yeah. Uh, thanks for being with us.

Thank you guys. Thank you so much. I appreciate you guys. It's gonna be, it was a real honor to be here. Good.

So You're welcome.

Anytime. It is

A big

Honor to be, I I live around the corner, literally. That's awesome. So I'm happy to come. I love it anytime. So

I love it. Thanks dude.

Yeah. Thank you.

So what, what'd you guys hear? What was, what was like, Ooh,

It's a wealth of knowledge today. Yes. I feel like, um, I was kind of thinking of all of my sessions with Chad as he was talking. I was like, oh yeah, yeah. Yep, yep, yep. We did that. Yep. Yep. Hmm. And, um, I think there's power, and he talked about this through journaling, but also like, even just therapy in general, like getting the words out that are in your head somehow. Yeah. Has power, right? Mm-hmm. . And I think, um, for a lot of us even, it's like the first step is that whether you have someone to confide in, um, verbally or writing it down or those things. And I remember just speaking my whole story out loud, I think with Chad was the first time I ever had Huh. And it, and it makes you go, whoa. I knew I'd been through some stuff, but I didn't have a clue Yeah.

That it was all of this. And when I say it out loud, it's kind of crazy. And then he was able to say kind of like what he talked about, he was able to say, Hey, you've, you've, let's take a step back. Yeah. You've been through some stuff. Yeah. And maybe, uh, you know, you've learned, what did he call it? I would call it like coping mechanisms, but, or survival tactics. Yeah. Those things that we do to kind of survive as a kid that don't really, may not, uh, be in our best interest as adults. Yeah. Yeah. Hmm. Um, I think it's just really helpful to be able to do that. And, um, I thought that was, for me, one of the most beneficial things in therapy and kind of where he started today. And I love that. Mm-hmm.

so good. Well, I mean, that's, so much of the stuff is stuff that I've, he's been saying to me. Yeah. Um, what do you think, I mean, we've told you about him before mm-hmm. and the things we've been learning from him. I think

It,

He's ugly. . Oh, he's a jerk. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Those good today, man, look great today. Almost like Yeah. You're a good looking man. You know, he cleaned really well up.

Yeah. He said podcasts say less. Yeah. Yeah. I'm coming and prepared. No, I, I think it's so awesome to understand that therapy is so important and it helps a lot of families, but there are parts of therapy that anyone can do. And I think him saying, learning how to be in people's seasons without feeling the need to interject or change the steps that they're taking Yeah. Yeah. Can be done by anyone. Of course, therapy gives you resources for you to help do that for yourself, um, and kind of see your world and your situation in a bigger picture. But the beauty in the heart of Porter's call and maybe the invitation of a, of for us is also to practice walking alongside people without needing to change something. Even though you think, you know, it's for their best. It could be a parent, it could be a friend where you just want them to be thriving and we love that heart, but what they need is someone to just walk alongside them.

Mm-hmm. , hear their story, help them understand their story. Um, maybe help them to slow down, be mindful. All those things are by listening more and being present more than controlling or directing a person or a situation. Yeah. I thought that was so great. How many times are we, like things would change if only if you'd listen to me . Yeah. But then where's the acceptance of what if things don't change, then what does life look like if I'm just, I'm present and I accept this is what it is. Yep. For now. Yep. How do I show up for you? And for myself too.

I, he helped me even just with the whole accommodating idea of how God's scriptures are actually somewhat God accommodating to where man has gone. Mm-hmm. humanity has gone and being this, almost this kind gentle gentleman mm-hmm. , you know, going, okay, I, I know good father that's like, yeah, okay, we're here. This is not the ideal. Right. Um, we're always aiming back to the ideal, but here we're gonna take it from a different direction. Um, but then also on the same, in the same scriptures and the same heart of God as is also truth with certain things. That was really mm-hmm. . I have, I have things to think about with that. That was really great. Cause I'm really thinking through the written word of God right now. Right. And trying to rethink my thinking on it and not, you know, and people get so scared of the word deconstruction. We talked about that in this podcast

Too, which was so great. Cuz I think everyone has a different view and opinion of what it is. Yeah. Mm-hmm. . And he did such a good job of making it relatable because maybe we're all somewhat always deconstructing something. Yes. And so he made it Yes. To where Yes. But on a bigger, you know, uh, way, this is what it might look like according to faith, but it was so good. Mm-hmm.

. Yeah. Yeah. I'm, I'm a I'm a fan.

Yeah. So maybe if, like, if we're practicing something this week out of this conversation, it's being mindful, learning how to slow down to understand your own story and that's, it could be journaling, it could be talking to a friend, it could be going to therapy, you know, there's beauty and you value something so much that you're going to make an hour a priority every week, you know? Mm-hmm. . Yeah. But maybe it's practicing to learn your story by just being mindful. Mm-hmm. , how can I be mindful? How can I slow down in this moment?

Yeah. Slowing down that, that one's huge with me. And I think even doing that, I've been trying to do that with Jesus, so mm-hmm. as I'm slowing down, as I'm either getting worried about something or pissed with my kids or something, um, I'm really trying to slow down with Jesus intentionally and then saying, Jesus, help me have empathy for this person. Mm-hmm. , or mm-hmm. for myself. Yes. In this moment. That's really been a practice I've been doing. So that might be a great practice for this week. Yep. Mm-hmm.

. Love it.

So anyhoo, you guys, thank you for listening, watching, doing whatever you're doing. Uh, we are so truly grateful for you and, um, I don't know, just gonna do this with you. So

Yes, so please like, comment, we wanna know how it's going for you. All the things here, subscribe, share all of that, love and support we really do appreciate.

Bye.