10000 MINUTES

203: Carol Timmons on the Language of Apologizing In Many Ways

Episode Summary

We jump back into the 5 languages of apology with MFT Carol Timmons. Carol invites us to learn our own language of apology, process our thoughts before reacting, and forgive those who might never apologize.
 Practice: Apologize In Many Ways If you’ve found this practice or another practice helpful, let us know at mail@10000minutes.com and we might include your story in a future episode!

Episode Notes

The 10000 MINUTES Podcast is a weekly deep dive into the adventures and struggles of living out our daily lives WITH Jesus, not for Him. Also, we like to laugh. A lot. Maybe too much.. Ok, maybe too much.

Episode Summary:
We jump back into the 5 languages of apology with MFT Carol Timmons. Carol invites us to learn our own language of apology, process our thoughts before reacting, and forgive those who might never apologize.

Practice: Apologize In Many Ways

If you’ve found this practice or another practice helpful, let us know at mail@10000minutes.com and we might include your story in a future episode!

Next week, GRAMMY®, Dove and two-time K-LOVE Fan award winner Mandisa joins the 10000 MINUTES Podcast to share her journey with navigating depression, the ways she’s coped with loss, and how our everyday decisions impact our mental health.


Show Notes:
The 5 Apology Languages” by Gary Chapman and Jennifer Thomas
Apology Language quiz
Carol’s Notes

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Episode Transcription

So sincere apology may lead to forgiveness or may not. It may lead to reconciliation, or it may not

In restoration quite

Yesterday. Yes. Restoration is reconciliation. Yes. Okay. But there's little chance of either forgiveness or reconciliation without a sincere apology.

Hello.

Hey everybody. Welcome to the 10,000 Minute Podcast. My name's Tim Timmons.

I'm Chris.

Hi Chris. I'm Moy

Now. Just curious. Okay.

Okay.

I,

I think your last name matters, but I, maybe that's just cuz Mine's So, like Tim Timmsy,

. Mine's just the same as yours. Chris Cleveland. Yeah, it's, I feel like I slurred my words. So Cleveland does a lot to get out and, um, maybe it's a false humility thing. Like, I don't care if you know my last name. Oh. But really inside I do . I hope you know

It. Cleveland, everybody.

Cleveland. We'll pack that on a Yeah. On another day. Be another one. I mean, I like Donese, but rumor has it, it's Donny Setti. Ah, I don't know. My family's too big. So we have rumors. We don't have an actual facts in our, in our

World. So, cause rumors happen with a lot of people.

Yeah. So I guess maybe I'm also Italian. I don't know. Doesn't matter guys. . So my last name, whatever, it's just another word to mispronounce . So let's just stick with Mo

.

That's what I think. ,

Because season one everybody, we found out her real name, which is Iran

Is my real name. Hey. Yo. They, they can

Listen to season one, Mary backwards. They

Can listen to season one to find

Out. Okay. Okay. Anyways, it's great. But we think you're great either way.

Thanks. We do. I do too. Yeah.

. Okay. Speaking of great. And speaking of family, uh, this is episode two of the woman

Is named

The woman who named Howard.

Yeah. Tims

Mm-hmm. , giddy up gi. The, uh, let's

Go.

Uh, so Carol Timmons, my mom, who's a therapist, uh, if you did not listen to the last episode, uh, we are rethinking, apologizing. Mm-hmm. like rethinking apologies and how we do it. So she's kind of going off of the Gary Chapman book. Who, the guy, the same guy that did the Five Love Languages. Mm-hmm. wrote a book on the five apology languages and the first two we did last, uh, last episode podcast, last episode. Thank you. That's English . Uh, and we're gonna go through the next three right now. Yep. Yep. Um, guys, this is so good. It's really good. So I hope you enjoy this and thank you for giving. If you've been giving in 10,000 minutes, can always go to 10,000 minutes.com to get different resources or to give there support what we're doing. Um, and to get show notes.

Show notes, yeah. They'll have stuff in the, oh wait, show notes.

Yeah. Cuz she's got this little piece of paper, guys, that ours is yellow. You wanna show that thing really quick? Anyways, it looks like a, it's

A Mexican restaurant menu.

Yeah, it totally does. People, it's pretty great. Just, just so you can see it. Cause I don't think you can see it in the other thing, . But anyways, it's wonderful. So we are gonna go through, uh, language at three, four, and five on this sucker. So enjoy this. I think it will really encourage you.

Hey, this is Moy. Each episode we're going to hear from listeners about the impact that practices like this one from episode 15 and 16, rethink Your Grief, have Had in their life.

Hi, I'm Jocelyn. I really loved the episodes on grief from season one. I now allow myself to label my feelings toward loss, specifically quote unquote, small loss as grief and to process my feelings in that way. This has really helped me through a year of many changes and ups and downs, giving myself the freedom to grieve and to go through the stages and then to let go.

If you found this bit or any other practice helpful, let us know by emailing mail 10,000 minutes.com and we might include your story in a future episode. Hi, it's Mo again. Just here to quickly let you know that some of our footage from the interview is missing due to technical issues, but the conversation with Carol is truly incredible. So we hope you enjoy

Language three is restitution or amends. And the question here, now the first question was, I'm sorry, or the first expression was, I'm sorry, the se second expression was, I was wrong. This one is, what can I do to make it right? Hmm. So it asks if any compensation or help is needed for the wound to heal or for the other person to get on their feet. It asks how you can restore that person's confidence in your love. And a good way to say it is, I know it's not enough to just tell you, I'm sorry. Is there anything I can do to make up for what I've done? Mm. Now I think where this gets, um, confused sometimes is in a husband wife relationship where there's, um, a disco agreement and the husband comes home with flowers mm-hmm. mm-hmm. or a necklace mm-hmm. or something, and the wife's going love the flowers or the necklace or the bracelet's. Beautiful. But, but don't you remember what we were arguing about, right?

?

Yeah. And so thinking, well, I gave you flowers. Do you not even care? You didn't think? That's not important. Nothing I do is enough for you. I'm trying. Okay. Well, we're, we're amends are good, but they need to also have some other elements in them.

Mm-hmm. , is this more like gift giving or is it part of like, sh just showing up? You know, I could see this being like, what can I do actually, like, be here and be played in like that type of thing?

Yeah. That, that could be it, it could, uh, incorporate a lot of different things. Mm-hmm. , it could incorporate an actual thing or just, um, what can I do to make it right, even if what can I do to make it right would be be, well, don't use those words again,

Right?

Mm-hmm. , don't ever say it that way. Right. Or don't say it in that tone of voice. . Yeah. That could be an event.

Mm-hmm. I'm, I I I feel like this one could be a total just bomb waiting to happen . Because if, if I were to say certain things that could come across as like, that'll start another thing that we need to apologize for. Yeah. It seems like it's true. This one feels tricky to me.

Yeah. I, I think it is tricky. I think, I think maybe what we could say is number three needs to be paired right. With something else. Yes. Right. Even if it were paired with accepting responsibility, I was wrong. Yeah. Yeah. And then what can I do to make it right?

Yeah. Right. Yeah. It, it in and of itself mm-hmm.

, it could

Be a bump feels dangerous. Mm-hmm.

. Mm-hmm. . Yes. And some people don't understand that. They think that if they can just make an amend mm-hmm. , they shouldn't have to say sorry, or I was wrong or any other thing.

I actually feel like so many people lead with this. Yes. Right. Let me just, uh, I'll show back up in two weeks and be cool. Yeah. And be real happy and be the thing and Yes. And walk like it didn't happen. Right. And that, that was our family, you know? Mm-hmm. , that was, that's been the cycle that I've seen and it's like, oh, I guess everybody's fine. I, we're just, we're living now. Mm-hmm. . Okay. Yeah. Cool. And then you don't, you haven't processed anything. Yes.

That's where you get the lumpy rug, right? Yes. . All right, well let's go on to, um, language number four. Repentance. Hmm. I'll do my best not to do it again. That's the way it could be said. Okay. Understands that repentance literally means turning around 180 degrees open to problem solving desire to change, to prevent a replay without defensiveness or excuses. Hmm. This is another one that's really good to pair Yeah. With another one. Hmm. But if there are, if somebody continually does the same thing over and over and you try to forgive it and they just keep, oh, you know, that's just me. I just keep doing this. Right? Yes. , what they need to hear is, I am going to work on not doing this again. Mm-hmm. , here's how it could be said. How could I say it in a different way so it wouldn't come across as critical? What change would you like to see in me to help you rebuild Trust in me?

Because trust is at the bottom of all these things. Is that why? Yes.

Yes.

Trusting that you're actually honest and saying, I'm sorry, honest,

Trust that you get my pain. Mm-hmm. ,

Right. Trusting that you're, your empathy is real. Mm-hmm. for me. Mm-hmm.

, trusting that you see your mistake. Trusting that you're owning your mistake.

Do you think it's easier to apologize to strangers than it is people you know deeply,

Very

Often. So much baggage in the, the intimate

Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . Because why?

Because they know all yours too. I don't

Know. Because people who know you could use it against you. Yeah. Mm-hmm. . And, um, a stranger doesn't, isn't gonna see you that much or it's not gonna be, they're not going to, uh, bug you about it. Continue to bug you about it. Yeah. You said you're sorry, but now look, here, you're doing it and again.

Mm-hmm. , I'm gonna hold you accountable more. Mm-hmm. the people around you. Mm-hmm.

. Mm-hmm. .

Mm-hmm.

. Yeah. That's a very good point. Because we can think I'm so apologetic. Um, because you apologized to people that aren't gonna be able to Yeah. Right. Call you under it another time.

Right. Okay. I wasn't mentally prepared for how deep this was gonna die into my

Life. I know, I know, I know guys. I know

Because we still haven't gotten into like, apologizing to ourselves because I think about that too, just like That's right. That's why it's so easy to apologize to others. Cuz I have a record of my own things. And so it's easy to go into shame. Like any, anytime I've had to apologize, I, I always want to, I feel comfortable in conflict and disagreement. Mm-hmm. . So I'm like, cuz I did not have it. I did not have that space when I was a kid. So I'm like, yes, let's repair. Yeah. Mm-hmm. . But then I drop into shame afterwards and I'm like, okay, we repaired us, but I did not repair me and I don't know how to forgive myself now for causing pain. And so just thinking about that, I'm like, man, we haven't even gotten into the self forgiving aspect that is probably shaped by the way we've experienced the lack of That's right. Forgiveness. That's right around us. But

There's an excellent chapter in this book. So I'm recommending that people consider this book. There's some things in here I don't agree with necessarily. Mm-hmm. But one of the chapters is exactly what you're saying, choosing to forgive yourself. Mm-hmm. And they even say, what does it mean to forgive yourself? Forgiving oneself is much like forgiving someone who has offended you. Forgiving someone else means that you choose to no longer hold the offense against them, so forth. Um, but the idea is forgiving yourself and he gives even a little thing. You can write your self apology statement. Here's a sample [inaudible] saying to yourself, the offense you committed has troubled me greatly. It has brought me much inner anxiety, but I have heard your sincere apology and I value you. Hmm. Hmm. Therefore, Moy, I choose to forgive you. I will no longer hold the offense against you. I will do everything I can to make your future bright. You can count on my support. Let me say it again. Moy, I forgive you. Hmm. Be powerful. Huh? Very

Powerful. Whoa.

.

The I will continue to be your support. Mm-hmm. . Wow. That's crazy. That's okay. Mm-hmm. . All right guys. No one look at me. no one. Look at me. I'm crying. No one. Look at me as you

Were saying that, like how you go, how you like l like to actually, you're comfortable in conflict and you want to get to resolve. I thought this thing and maybe because of the same thing, like I kind of aggressively go into it. Like I, I think maybe, um, and I've, I can think of plenty of times and I'm like, no, we have to take care of this now. Mm-hmm. and, and kind of like hit, um, going to conflict resolution like , uh, forcefully. .

Yeah. Like premature,

Um, yeah. Mm-hmm. and maybe because there was none before and I'm like, no, we're gonna take care of this and we're gonna take care of it now and you don't go to bed angry and all the things that the church has thrown at you and this kind of stuff. Which I had to realize, well I don't, I don't know if that's actually a thing. And so I think over the years I've had to learn how to like, uh, take a step back and not dive into even that stuff. Cuz I know I've done it with Mackenzie before and I'm like, oh, we've gotta, we've we're gonna take care of this now and then, you know, I'm just creating more issues to apologize for

Mm-hmm. . Well, some people need longer time to process. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. and some people are inner processors and some people are external processors. Mm-hmm. . So an external processor says, let's get it all out in the table. Let's get it, let's decide it right now. Mm-hmm. , you know, we're gonna handle it, we're gonna get through it. The internal processor goes, mm, I can't, I have to, I have to think about this mm-hmm. a little bit myself, then I'll talk to you. But I, I really have to think a little bit because I've gotta get myself straight to know before I can talk to you. Right. And so sometimes there's a, a difference between either kind and if one person is strongly an inner processor and one person in the friendship, either or is an an external processor, there can be some misunderstanding. Yeah, sure. If there's just understanding that we do things differently and it's okay, we've just got to get to Yes. So in a couple relationship I usually say, okay, if you are on two opposite ends of the bookcase here, um, don't let more than 24 or 48 hours go by. Mm-hmm. process. Take some time to think about it and process it. An internal processor will often write what they have to say. I

Was about to ask that cuz that's Kinzie. She can write way better than she can speak sometimes. Actually, we've gotten way better at it over the years mm-hmm. , but early on mm-hmm. , I would get letters. Yes. You know, that kind of

Thing. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. , just share one little aside here. I went to a journaling seminar one time and the professor said, uh, there's one thing you'll remember from this whole seminar. And I thought I'll remember more than that. . Well, I remember this one thing. I have a whole notebook,

I have a notebook of everything else. But she said, how do I know what I think until I see what I say? That's very profound. How do I know what's ruminating in my head? Spinning, spinning, spinning until I see what I have written down. Wow. And I look back at it because when I'm processing something that's hurtful or I have to make a decision, I often just go Yes. Spin in my head. And I may or may not come to a conclusion, but I'm just confused. Yeah. Mm-hmm. . But if I can write it down, there's something magic, I don't know what it is, but about writing it down. Because somehow as we write it, we get it down and we begin to see, oh yeah, that's where I was going and that's why I was feeling like that. And here's what was going on with me for that. You begin to see how do I know what I think? Right. What's ruminating until I see what I say. Wow. And I, I write to one of my grandsons, um, and I wrote him a letter the other day and then I folded all up and I said, I'm not sending it. Hmm. Because I was doing my own work, . Mm-hmm. I was upset about something. And so I wrote him this three page letter and I thought, gosh, he's never gotten a three page letter from you, .

Yeah, yeah. .

And then I reread it and I thought, oh no, he doesn't need to hear all that. You're doing your own work. I was just, I'm Hmm. Now I see what was going on with me. Now I get, but wow. I can write him a letter differently, but he doesn't need all this. Mm. But I needed to write it. Yeah. Right. I just didn't know I needed to write it. Mm wow.

For me, that actually could be a, a person. I mean, that's what why therapists are such a gift in a lot of ways, is you are sitting there listening. You're, you're the mirror. You're almost the journalist. Right?

Yeah.

You know, repeating back, mirroring back. Mm-hmm. what you're seeing them actually saying. That's right. And you know, as a friend mm-hmm. I think that's a role that we each get to play as mm-hmm. being that person who's just trying to mirror back what that person's actually saying. Right. Yeah. Whether it's writing or,

That's interesting. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm.

also made me think of one more thing kinzie's better at than I am . It's like, man, actually that seems,

That makes a lot more sense than me just saying a bunch of

Words. That list, you know, list is real long,

Longer about today. ,

Should we go on to let's language five. Let's do, let's do it. Okay. Uh, this one is actually requesting forgiveness. Hmm. Will you forgive me? So I'll go through the five. Yep. First of all was, I'm sorry, second of all was I was wrong. Third, what can I do to make it right? Fourth was I'll do my best not to do it again. And the fifth now is, will you forgive me? This expresses recognition that forgiveness is needed and that you are willing to be patient in seeking reconciliation. More time or greater, greater clarification of your authenticity may be needed. If so, the ball is in their court. Yeah. So here's how it could be said. I know I've hurt you and you have every right to be angry. I value our relationship and I'm so sorry I have damaged it. So I am hoping that in time you can find it in your heart to forgive me.

You see that adding those words instead of just saying, so will you forgive me? Mm-hmm. , right? When you're putting someone on the docket to forgive me right now, they're going, well, yeah, I think I want to, but let me think about it a little bit. Well, you have to think about it. You know, you're really not forgive me. Yes. Right. Well, I I don't know. I just, I I do wanna forgive you. Um, some things I maybe need to sort out or I need to ask you or I need to hear from you, or I just need some time. So that's a good one. If you will have a patient attitude. So you can see the way that it's spoken here is with a patient attitude. Yeah. I was going to say this one's it has a lot to do with time. Yeah.

So give an example of how this would work. So you say, I'm sorry, you know, experiencing regret. Mm-hmm. , um, I say I'm sorry, experience, regret I was wrong. Uh, what can I do to kind of make amends on this? Is there, or something that I could do differently next time or just at least try mm-hmm. . Cause I want to try and do this cause I see how that hurt you. Mm-hmm. , um, I'll do my best, um, to not do it again, all that. So will you forgive me and, okay, so I, I'm sorry. Ever I'm reading this again. I know I've hurt you Chris, risk and you have every right to be angry, hurt, all the, all the different feelings. Mm-hmm. , I value our relationship and am so sorry. I have damaged it. So I'm hoping that in time you'll find it in your heart to forgive me. So it's putting it in their court now. That's right. Because you've done, you've done your part. I've done my side side of the court. I've done everything I can, can do.

And then if they say, well, I could forgive you if you would, okay. All right. Now we can talk mm-hmm. , or I can't forgive you because, okay, well maybe we could still talk

Mm-hmm. , because then you're gonna have to do this. I mean, this is the process that you're gonna have to go back to. That's right. So it's almost taking you back to three to amends of like, Hey, what can I do? Mm-hmm.

. Right. So these are the five aspects of a, an effective apology. Mm-hmm. . So if you really want it to be the most effective, you could incorporate all of them. But for most people, the top one or two will do it. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . So now let me just throw it to you. Which of the five would be your top two? What is probably most going to speak to you? If someone has offended you, they've hurt you, they don't even know what they did. Or maybe they do know what they did, but it's between you. Um, which, which one or two would be your most comfortable? Apology language.

1, 2, 3, 4, 5

Are mine. Mm-hmm. .

Mm-hmm. . Gosh. I see such value in all of them. Mm-hmm. . It's hard for me to just

Choose. I think it kind of depends on the offense. Mm-hmm. and the situation. I think like the

Person

And the person. Yes. And the history. And like,

So go to your closest. Would it be best to go to your closest, most intimate relationships?

Yes. Alright. Just think about that. Yeah, just think about your

Friendship. Think my wife. It's one thing and we've got a different history and um, and the things that we're annoying each other about are pretty, um, like typical like parenting and Yes. Getting through life things. And so those, while they don't hit as deep as, as they had before, cause we're actually, we're doing great babe , we're

Just .

But I, I think for her for sure, it's like the, I'm sorry I was wrong. Like me taking, um, me taking ownership of that and seeing and validating her feelings. Mm-hmm. were, were huge, huge things. And um, and I think for me being heard, uh, are, those are the same things when I think about like my family and some of those like years long hurts. Um, the, I was wrong. Uh, um, the, I'll try not to do it again. Yeah. And the will you forgive me, like really, like, it's, it's even less than the, like, the, I'm sorry. It's like really owning something. It's really changing behavior and then like in time saying, can we get back to a place that's decent? Yes. I think the, those big hurts are more like that, where the smaller ones are like, Hey, I see you. I hear you. I'm sorry. Mm-hmm. , um, are, are a little bit more, I don't know.

That's good, Chris. That's great.

I think when I think of number five, will you forgive me? And if there's any pushback on those things, like I would probably get a little resentful that there's pushback on that. I'm like, I just killed it with doing these five mm-hmm. and you're saying no, that there's something that you still have against me. Mm-hmm. . It's like, well, you know, I think I would, but what I'm seeing in that is I'm just tracking my relationships and different things that I apologized for mm-hmm. is that there was something in here that I was actually missing. I wasn't actually, uh, regretting it or really taking enough responsibility for it

More, or they didn't get it or believe you or it felt it was weak or something.

Yeah. Yeah. Any of those things. I'm just, there's, there's something in there that for me as I'm apologizing. Cuz if I got to number five and they're like, yeah, X, Y, and Z, I'd be like, listen, I just did this thing so well and that, that makes a lot of sense to me. I, I want to think about how I'm going through each of these when I'm repenting and asking for

Forgiveness. Mm-hmm. . Okay. Mm. Well there's a lot of food for thought. Mm-hmm. Yes. In this sheet, because this is the cliff notes of the entire book, right? Mm-hmm. . Yes. And, um, he explains it well on each, in each one of the languages, chapters and so forth. So it's really worth reading the book. Um, you wanna continue with some different aspects here or do we wanna call this, call this a day?

. This is hurting my, um, you, I thi Yeah. Ch check it out there. I, I just keep thinking of, um, how, how we do this with Jesus. Because I think, I don't really apologize with the concept of doing this with Jesus. I think I, I just do it cause it's the right thing to do. I know this is, I gotta work on my side of the court, but mm-hmm. , there's a different way of putting the lens of seeking first the kingdom of God and what is beautiful mm-hmm. to seeking first kingdom of Tim. Cuz a lot of times I think I'm apologizing in through the lens of the kingdom of Tim. Like I'm Yep. I'm doing this so I can help in some way. Mm-hmm. . But for me, if it's like, is again Dallas woodard's thing of living an unfundable life, if my aim is the kingdom of God in what's most beautiful for the kingdom and not just for me, I, these would go much better if I did these alongside Jesus.

I love when I wake up in the morning to say the Lord's prayer, just to say it under my breath, under the covers. , give us this day our daily bread, forgive us our deaths as we forgive those, our debtors forgive us our sins as we forgive those who have sinned against us. Yeah. Mm. It just, the Lord's prayer just covers so many aspects mm-hmm. even of this. Right.

Um, it's hard for me to separate forgiveness and a lot of this stuff mm-hmm. and it, it makes me come to maybe like the, a big one that is how do we forgive if we were trying to do this? And I don't, like we all are, how do we forgive someone who, who's not even apologizing? Excellent. And how do we get

There? Yes. , that's, I thought that's kind of where I was gonna go the next mm-hmm. . Yeah. Because it's, it begs this question. Yes. Yes. Um, yeah. I was just gonna make, I had a question here. Why do we need apologies? Why do we need apologies? Uh, anthropology tells us that all people have some sense of morality, a sense of art, tribes all over the world. Whatever culture you've been, every person has a sense. Now their sense of morality may be different than mine, right? Hmm. Their sense of aught over whatever issues might be different than mine. But we all have a sense of yes, no, right, wrong ought, ought not mm-hmm. mm-hmm. . Um, when one sense of aught or right or wrong is violated, there is a hurt. Some people say, you know, you step on my, my toe and I'm angry. Yeah. Well, no, you're hurt. Hurts the primary emotion. Right. Anger's the secondary emotion. So, okay. So when someone's sense of art is violated something inside, um, the offended person calls for justice. We have a just God is just, is grace and truth. He's all grace and kindness and love and compassion, and he's all truth and tell it like it is and lay on the line. And that's Jesus. Um, so we calls for justice, which is the basis for all judicial systems. Somebody's sense of ought has been offended. So now we want justice. Yeah. Now the question is, justice may bring some satisfaction and closure, but it does not normally bring about reconciliation.

Hmm.

So if there's been a murder, yes. Okay. Somebody's right on. Right. Life,

Not

Reconciliation, but No. So justice does not fix things . Mm-hmm. , um, a thief may pay back money stolen and there may be justice, but it doesn't, uh, normally restore relationship. Now to getting into what your question was, I wanted to bring this up. So sincere apology may lead to forgiveness or may not, it may lead to reconciliation, or it may not

In restoration about

Yesterday. Yeah. Yes. Restoration is reconciliation. Yes. Okay. But there's little chance of either forgiveness or reconciliation without a sincere apology. I believe that, uh, forgiveness, I can forgive someone even if they don't apologize to me because I want to cleanse my soul. Mm-hmm. mm-hmm. . And I believe that the Lord's Prayer teaches that forgive us our deaths as we forgive our debtors. Yeah. Doesn't say because they've Right. Asked for forgiveness. If I didn't forgive all the people who have hurt me because I, they didn't apologize to me, I would be very weighed down. Yeah.

Yeah. Yes, yes. Right? Yes.

Um, so forgiveness in

My, it's a lot to hold.

Yeah. In my understanding. Um, forgiveness, even without an apology for benefits, the forgiver.

Yep.

It releases the offender to God for justice. Hmm. And it releases my anger to God. Mm-hmm. .

Mm-hmm. So, yeah. So we want to be people who are quick to, um, like acknowledge our own spaces where we need to apologize, but are also capable, uh, for our own health and life and all those things to be able to let things go and forgive, um, regardless of the outcome either way,

Regardless of whether somebody real else really realizes how they've hurt us or betrayed us or pained us or whatever.

Hmm. Yeah. Or if they'll ever apologize to us on both ends of it.

Yes. Because there are people who have passed on Right. Who will never be able to apologize. Yes.

Yeah.

So how does one do that? How does one go through that process of grieving that mm-hmm. and then letting that daily go if need be.

Okay, here's my sentence.

Wish.

I have adopted for my counseling a basic sentence of my life and my story. And I think it's everybody's story. And that is mental and emotional and spiritual health is letting go of what I cannot have. Mm. By grieving it and then embracing what I have left. Mm mm

So good. Say that one more

Time. Yeah. Cuz it's, it's a lot and I'll amplify it. Mental, emotional and spiritual health is letting go of what I truly cannot have. Now, there are things that I want that if I work hard for them or I ask for an apology or I, you know, do this or that, I can have it. Yeah.

But there are certain things in my life that I would like, that I want very deeply or very much that I cannot have. And I can carry around that all along. Well, I can't have it, you know? I know I can't have it. Yeah. Why, why can't I have it? They've got it. You know, they had it and it's my, okay. So mental, emotional, spiritual health is letting go of what I've found out I truly cannot have. Mm-hmm. , by grieving it, I've got to grieve it. Mm-hmm. , that's how you do it. I've got to grieve it. However I grieve it, I may cry, I may journal, I may talk to other people. I may take a run, I may play a game of, you know what sports something. Mm-hmm. , I may, whatever, but I've got to grieve it. But when I can grieve it, I mean, there's a saying too, that grief is the path to healing. So when I can truly grieve something and that's going through the stages of grief mm-hmm. Hmm. , when I can truly grieve something, then I can let it go. Yeah. And when I can let it go, then I can stand up and look and see, oh, I've, but I've got all this left. Mm-hmm. , I didn't get that. I'll never forget it. Mm-hmm. , darn it. Mm-hmm. . But here's what I've got left.

Mm. Yeah. And that was the last part of your statement that you just said was embracing,

Embracing, cherishing, loving what I have

Left, what I do have left.

That's so good. Send me your, uh, bill after

This podcast. It's too real. I'm like, yes. I can see that I have a very specific person in mind who is way down and is mentally suffering from the lack of apologies Yeah. In her life. Yeah. And so she lives a life of grieving what she's lost. But not, she, I don't know if she, how what, what is needed to get to a point to embrace what it what is right now. Cuz she's so far back in why don't I still have that? Why didn't I, she

Still believes she could get it.

Yes. Wow.

At some level. Mm-hmm. Oh wow. Maybe not at a total, but you know, at some deep level she believes she could still get it if she could blame someone enough or make someone else sad enough or knock somebody's door down, or Yes. Blame God and make God feel bad because she doesn't have it. I don't know. Right. You know, I'm not talking about your friend that you,

But you're, you're hitting all of them. Yeah. You're hitting all of them.

If we still think we could get it, if we could make someone else give it to us

Right.

Then I haven't let it go.

You said something a second ago that was really interesting and I've thought about this before in some of my specific instances in life is like, is there a boundary on asking for an apology? Mm-hmm. , like, there's part of me that wonders in some of the real serious stuff that we have in going and saying, Hey, I people haven't seen in 20 years mm-hmm. , Hey, you can obviously see how this has affected us. Like, I would really love and apology or I mean a as you talked about things that we cannot, that we, that we can't get. And then I thought, well, can I actually get it if I asked or will that take me down? Hmm. A whole nother rabbit hole of things I'm gonna grieve or maybe I need a grieve it or Hmm.

Well, I mean, depending on what's going on, yeah. We don't need to know. Um, but if there are people in the past who have hurt you and you have carried this angst toward them then and you wanna sort of make some kind of amends with them mm-hmm. , you could say, you know, something that happened a long time ago, I've held against you and I've realized that I don't wanna hold that against you any longer. Mm-hmm. . And I just wanna let you know that I did hold it against you and I I don't hold it against you any longer.

Mm-hmm. . Yeah. That's like, that's again, back to your side of the court, our side of the court. That's all we can really do. Instead of asking them to come into this, it's doing, it's putting it on.

It's saying, I I'm owning how I have felt toward you. Yeah. Now that's not saying that you were murderous or you were horrible or you were slander, but you might even get out of them. Well, you know, I realize I did some things wrong too. Mm-hmm. , it might open the door. Yeah.

Yeah. And it might not and it might not. And that's the, the place where you get to like Yeah. That's truly okay with that. Yeah.

Yeah. I think about myself when like, I think sometimes space is good and time is good. Like there's some of those really serious things that I'm like, actually I'm, I'm like fine. Mm-hmm. , but this guy's still alive. And if I could get like a mm-hmm. , I was wrong and I'm sorry there's something deep down in me that would be, that would open up. Mm. Or is it worth all of the stuff that's gonna come up with it? That's right to, that's right. To do that. And maybe that's just something we have to figure out for ourselves.

That's right. That's right. Could open up Pandora's box. Right.

But even going into that conversation though, if you went into that conversation or I went into that, that conversation expecting

The stuff,

The, an apology out of it. Like, if I do this, I mean that that would be something that I, it's gonna be great. I'm gonna kill that. I think if I really claim this and I apologize for my side of the court Yeah. I think this is gonna happen and if it doesn't then I'm even gonna be more pissed.

Yeah, that's right.

It'd be, yeah. I

Don't know how to, but if you ever did and you could say, you know, I've been holding this against you, so could you please forgive me for holding it against you? You know, you could do, I mean that's

Humbling. Why is Jesus principle, you're literally flipping it someone you want. Yeah. Like them to apologize, you take it to them. Mm-hmm. . Okay.

.

I dunno what else

I dunno else would be.

What else you

Got mom? Okay. Well, um, I think that's, um,

Any highlights that you see in your notes if you guys, my mom is so prepared. I mean she's like,

I love it.

She's got none of our other people are gonna be this prepared Abraham

One Soul is like Yeah. Just smile and ear to ear. Yeah. Thank you. Well I believe in this and I really wanted to present it. You can tell. Well, because the author, he did a marvelous job in the book and I think he made a great contribution. And

So except for that one party got wrong. Yeah.

The one idiot idiot.

We'll send him this episode. It's okay. It's okay. Well he

Might even come on here. Yeah.

Yeah. Actually that's a true statement. And we'll, we'll get his read on that and I'll say it. My mom's picture. Your total jack. Yeah. No, I'll not say that mom. I'll not say it at all. Uh, just on the side of what does this look like? I mean one of the things that we're always doing is we're saying, great, these are great things to see, but what does it look like to practice these things? Put them into practice with Jesus. Cuz that's kinda the difference with 10,000 minutes is that it's not just a devotional or something that we're learning going, Ooh, that's a cool word, but it's okay. So now how do we put this into practice? Can you guys think of anything? I mean, I think even just the Lord's prayer mm-hmm. mm-hmm. every morning. Mm-hmm. really does hold so much of this. Are there any things in here that, that you see as maybe a practice to do with Jesus?

I mean, I just think that keeping these basic little red things in here in mind are, are good. And because they're all things that Jesus would want us to do. Yeah. I'm sorry. Yeah. I was wrong. What can I do to make it right? Yeah. I'll do my best not to do it again. Will you forgive me? And they're all Jesus things. Yeah.

It, I mean this, so much of this is laying down your rights.

Yeah.

When I'm a apologizing, it is such a humble thing to say, I Yeah. I'm not gonna claim my rights here even if I was wrong in certain ways. And I'm not the only person in this relationship that needs to say something that's really like the way of the kingdom. Mm-hmm. is laying down my rights to being Right. And I mean, it's, it's beautiful.

And that's what he says. And James, humble yourselves. Yeah. Hmm. We don't ask God to humble us. Oh my gosh. Don't ask God to humble us . Yes. He says, humble yourselves then he doesn't have to humble us, but we're supposed to humble ourselves. Mm-hmm.

. So people I think, um, would be interesting and we can each kind of try this, but you know, this was an experiment initially that we'd just, maybe if there's somebody that you could do this with this week, and even if it's a small offense, what it look like for us to even just put this into practice mm-hmm. , but doing it from the place of I'm loved, no matter what my identity is, what my identity is. Mm-hmm. . Um,

So using one of these languages with somebody

Yeah. One of these languages or all of them just kind of, even even trying it out and it might feel so prescriptive mm-hmm. , but with somebody that, you know, it might be something where you go, Hey, this is gonna seem really cheesy, but I just wanna walk through this thing. Mm-hmm. because if I, I really want, I want reconciliation, I want restoration in our relationship. Mm-hmm. and this is my part. Yeah. Man. It would feel prescriptive and lame. Almost like when my wife and I would do these things was like, okay, so you start with a men's, you start with, you know, we'd go through this how to work through conflict and felt so cheesy and I feel blank when you blank , you know, all that stuff. Right. I remember a therapist saying to us, okay, I know it feels cheesy, but what's your alternative? And I'm like, ugh.

. Right.

I guess just not intimacy, . Yeah. You know, like of it. Yes. So it'd be awesome to try this this week and just see how that goes.

This is going up on the fridge at home. . I mean this is like, you can dive really deep in it, but I'm thinking about I've, you know, got three little kids at home. Totally. And I want them to totally be able to do this. Yeah. And to, and to see it, you know, um, see it mirrored for them. See it, see it practiced in their house. Yeah. Um,

And if you use these just basic statements that, I'm sorry I was wrong, what can I do? You start using those, it'll be just a normal language in your household.

Wow. Mm-hmm. . So good. Can you imagine a bunch of households like that? Listen,

Touch his shoes left and right. Boxes everywhere.

I mean Yeah. This, this really did a lot for me today. We always appreciate you. Good. Thank you. Coming in and just gently, you know, inviting us to forget but also own our part in things. Mm-hmm. . Um, but yeah, no, this is, this is exciting cuz this is exactly what has been just in our conversations with my cousins mm-hmm. and my friends mm-hmm. , like how do we change the culture of conflict mm-hmm. in our generation, right? Yeah. Where we're actually not afraid to own up to things, especially with cancel culture and all those things. Mm-hmm. like how do we show up vulnerable to trust that hopefully they see that we are in regret mm-hmm. , you know mm-hmm. or vice versa. Mm-hmm.

, it's all biblical. Mm-hmm. , this is all very biblically based. So there's not a, not any part of this that doesn't stand up to what scripture would teach. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. I think a few of the cuss words on here are, I I I would disagree. The ones in red. Yeah. The ones in red , you know. But that's fine Mom. That's how you wanna rule . Hey mom, would you, I don't think we've ever done this. No, I don't think we'll do it again. But would you, uh, even just pray for us and all the people listening. Mm-hmm. Um, yeah. Just in with this in mind.

Okay.

Like you can even think of all the people that you're counseling every week. Mm-hmm. and what's like, if we're gonna agree on something in the name of Jesus, what, what's that look like?

Our father, we come to you, um, in the name of Jesus and we come because you've told us to come boldly before the throne of grace to find help in time of need. And you've told us we don't have to come shyly or apologetically, we come boldly before your throne of grace in time of need because you are always ready to extend grace. You ask us to own what we have done. You ask us to confess, you want us to confess when you say, if we confess our sins, you are faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Not only forgive, but to cleanse. So we love that forgiveness. We love that cleansing. So I pray that these thoughts would, um, resonate and would be remembered, um, by all who are hearing and would know the Lord, that these are your words for them, for us, for me, for all of us here. That you want us to be Jesus to the people around us to be loving and graceful. And yet, um, call for accountability as well in others and in our own selves. So we thank you Lord Jesus. Amen.

Amen. Yeah. Help.

Mm-hmm.

.

Thanks Pom. So guys, check out Carol Timmons. Mm-hmm.

. . Check out Tim's mom. Check

.

I

Knew it. This got super weird.

I knew it. . Thank

You mom. Thank you so much.

Thank you. It's a joy to be with you. It's fun to be with both of you. Yeah.

Okay. Carol Timmons, everybody. Carol

Timmons

My mom. So

Good.

The, uh, the shrink, the the babe. I call her The shrink. The babe. The babe, the shrink. The

Teacher.

The teacher. There may be Nevermind. .

Uh, what'd you guys, what'd you guys hear? What'd you love? What was intriguing to you? And guys, we'll have this paper in the show notes, um, just all the different languages and mm-hmm. and go check out the book. But, uh, anything stick out to you guys?

Um, how maybe more intentional we can be with our apologies. I think sometimes saying, sorry, we think we've done our job. It's enough. But how we really need to be looking inward. Do I feel remorse when I say I'm sorry? Am I listening or being observant with the way the person's responding? Are they receiving my, sorry, less about me saving face and more about making sure that person understands that I am truly sorry. Mm-hmm.

.

I think that was new for me.

Being specific too and then like following through with changing your actions. Yeah. It's a whole thing. It's not just one step, but it, but it, you know, kind of follows through in a lot of things. And um, you know, once you do ask for that apology, maybe you don't get it. Mm-hmm. , which is a whole thing too. Right. And, um, and that's okay. And so it's, it's just a whole process that I, I don't think we think about very often. Mm-hmm. mm-hmm. . I,

I just could not stop. Well, gosh, there's so many ways that I was thinking about this, but think with my kids, like how to teach my kids this is really intriguing to me mm-hmm. because I, even, even my apologies to them is generally like, you guys, I'm so sorry. Did that and I'm not thinking through all the different ways that they might actually be. Be reading my apology. Mm.

Yeah.

So yes, that was really helpful. I'm excited to go through this and think through this with my kids and that's good in my marriage when I just want to kind of say sorry or when somebody else, just when my kid says sorry to me, but it's not a real sorry. And I just wanna say that is such bs there's, there's no remorse or heart in that. Right.

But I'm just gonna keep sending them to the fridge where I put this . Yes. Like, hey. Yes. Go check out number four, pal. Yes.

Which was so cute. That's

Really great parenting tip.

Yes. I think that was the be one of the best parts of the episode. You know, you've all, you have relationships or situations where your gut tells you they're not sorry. Yeah. And Carol validated this is what a sorry should look like. This is when it's not a true, sorry. Yeah. Mm-hmm. and it kind of, you know, we have this idea of just be the bigger man that's really what being sorry's about. Right. But it was own up that you are not bigger than the next person. That's what a sorry is. It's the opposite. It's um, acknowledging that you're on the same playing field almost. Yeah. And they have the power to, um, help repair Not with you. I thought it was so good.

I say a sorry. With often with some kind of contempt in my heart, thinking well, yeah. It, it depends on the situation I guess. But even with my wife sometimes with my kids, when I say sorry, I'm still thinking I don't really need to say sorry here, but I should, but I should. It's the right thing to do and I'm, I might be better, you know? And

It's not and then it, now it's not a sorry. No.

And that crazy. Are you saying it just to get through the moment? Yeah. Mean there's not any real life change.

It's the healthy thing to do. Mm-hmm. , when there's actually stuff underneath that I then will hold resentment. Yeah. For which Yeah. Isn't awesome. Yeah.

Hmm.

So big revealer, um, curious for what you guys learned and saw in this and heard. So we'd love to hear that from you.

Yes. Comment below. Uh, we'd love to hear what you guys are walking through. Yes. But we also just love to engage with you guys. You guys are hilarious.

Yes, please do. Um, so, hey, the practice this week is apologize in many ways. Mm. So it's just being aware of our apologies. And maybe if there's somebody that you need to apo I need to, we need to apologize to this week. Mm-hmm. , uh, what could that look like? So anyways, let's just practice that and let us know how that goes and what again, what you learned. Yes. Um, also, I just wanted to say thank you to Sherry G.

Let's go.

Who's up? Sherry G

Let's

Go. Uh, and to le ah, I don't, it's l e i g h. Is that Lee?

I think it's,

I think

It's Lee. Yeah. I wanna say lay like Hawaiian, but I think it's Lee. Lee.

It's Lee. Lee.

And the coolest

Part Lee. We can apologize to her later.

Yeah. Yeah. That's wrong.

That's, we're sorry Lee .

But thank you for partnering with us financially. This is kind of what makes this thing happen. Yes. Thank you guys for, you guys have been doing reoccurring gifts. Thank you. It's so, so, so helpful. Yes. Um, and I, what I love about Lee is that it's Lee t. Last name is Lee starts with a T. So it's kinda like I'm Tim T

That's true.

You are Lee T

And Sherry g

And Sherry G. Gosh,

These are band names.

Ed

Christy, George w wb. Let's go .

George is our producer in the back and he is just awesome. So yeah. G what is it? W gw Gwb. Everybody. That's, you know what? It's

A good monogram. .

Eat that. Gwb. Oh

Goodness guys.

Okay. Uh, we will see you or hear you or hear from you. You'll be hearing from us soon.

Please like, and subscribe, share if you can. Um, thank you guys for

Me. Let's take talks where they do this and things pop up. Yeah. Can you make things like subscribe, share

?

I.