Season 3 is all about relationships, the ways we navigate them and practices to help relationships thrive. In this episode, Joel Muddamalle, author of The Hidden Peace and Director of Theology at Proverbs 31 Ministries, walks us through the power of humility and the ways it can and should shape our relationship with God, ourselves, and others! Ryan Stevenson joins us as co-host!
Episode Summary: Season 3 is all about relationships, the ways we navigate them and practices to help relationships thrive. In this episode, Joel Muddamalle, author of The Hidden Peace and Director of Theology at Proverbs 31 Ministries, walks us through the power of humility and the ways it can and should shape our relationship with God, ourselves, and others! Ryan Stevenson joins us as co-host!
Practice: Treat Yourself and Others Like God Does: We are all made in the image of God! Are we treating ourselves and each other in this way? Staying humble helps us continue to see and treat each other as children of God. Practice this with us!
Show Notes:
The Hidden Peace: Finding True Security, Strength, and Confidence Through Humility BOOK
Co-hosts “Therapy and Theology” Podcast
WEBSITE
What is the gift of humility? It regains our awareness of where things ought to be, so we know how to relate to other people. This is the other thing I think is so vital in our relationships with humility.
That humility is actually the very thing that we can leverage and utilize in order to establish appropriate boundaries in relationships. Hey,
everybody. Good morning. Good morning. It's good morning for me. Maybe it's night for you. Maybe it's another time, day, mid -afternoon. These are just some,
some of the options that it could be for you. Tim Timmons here. Welcome to another 10 ,000 -minute podcast. You guys, this episode. episode as I say every week because I only put out the ones That are awesome,
and this is awesome There are 10 ,080 minutes in a week 80 of those minutes are spent in some church gathering Which is awesome But it's how do we join Jesus in the 10 ,000 minutes in this season? We happen to be doing this through relationships So it's all in relationships with God with others and with ourselves and how all that works How does that work?
How do we join Jesus in these places? places? So, so I was just on tour with a guy named Ryan Stevenson and his band, we were in the bus and, and they put on this podcast called Blurry Creatures, which is a fascinating podcast,
by the way. And it had this guy named Dr. Joel Mudamale on it. And I thought, I know that name. I think that guy's gonna be on the 10 ,000 minute podcast here in a few weeks.
So I said, Ryan, you're gonna co -host this with me. So, Ryan is on this one. with us today and I love having these two guys on here. So you guys, today we have Dr. Joel Madamale. He's a Bible teacher,
theologian, author, podcaster, book coach, husband, and father of four. I don't know what else he could add to that to make that even more awesome. But he has this new book out called The Hidden Peace and it's Fighting True Security,
Strength, and Confidence Through Humility. And it's out now. now. But guys, it's so much different than you think. So he's a co -host of the Therapy and Theology podcast. He's just an all -around good dude.
He's really funny, but crazy smart. I mean, I feel like I'm a little smarter, just maybe just 'cause I'm bald, just 'cause I'm more bald than him. Anyways, check out our show notes for more information on Joel,
Dr. Joel. Thank you. And if you guys are loving season three of the 10 ,000 Minute Podcast, would you subscribe to our podcast? so you don't miss another episode of the season and next season?
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It'll help you out. Here's Dr. Joel Madamale and Ryan Stevenson and myself. Okay, here we go. Joel.
Joel, welcome to the 10 ,000 Minute Podcast. I'm your host, Tim Timmons, and this is not your co -host, but a co -host just today, because it's kind of a funny story.
This is Ryan Stevenson. There you go. It's got a terrific beanie on today. Okay, Joel, check it out. So I just, I think you're awesome. I mean, you're probably a total douche outside of the camera,
but just the stuff that you post, I just love, I just, I enjoy your thoughts on things, you know, whatever. So we're doing this stuff in relationships.
I saw you had a book on humility. I'm like, yes, yes, I'm in. I mean, I'm as humble as they come. So I think I've got this nailed. I just felt like Ryan needed it. You should have written the book, Tim. Obvious,
I didn't want to say that too loud, but Ryan really needs humility. So I'm like, Ryan, why don't you jump on it? No, so that's not even the story. I mean, it's probably true, but it's not the story. So Ryan and I were just on tour together,
and we're just, we're driving, and you know, some of these drives, long drives, and you're like, "Let's just listen to a podcast." So some of the guys put on this Blurry Creatures podcast, and all of a sudden,
you're on the thing, and I, we had just, you know, like a boy had just gotten to your people, and it was just like, "Oh cool, Dr. Joel's gonna be on here with us, it's gonna be so cool." And then, like,
the next day you're on this blurry creatures podcast with these guys. I'm like, you guys, I'm going to hang out with this guy in a few bit, you know, a few weeks. Anywho, I'm like, Ryan, you've got to jump on this podcast with us.
Oh, so that's why Ryan's here. So yeah, I mean, bro, I'm a fan and thank you for letting me just sit in and I don't, I don't even really need to say much. I'm just stoked to like hear everything and learning.
And I really do, truth be told, I do need some humility. Because after hanging out with Tim for three weeks on the road straight,
my ego just went through the rough. Because you're like, "That guy is such an idiot, I feel so good about myself." Exactly. That feels really right.
So anyways, so we don't need to get into the blurry creatures world, Joel, but... but that may be another podcast for another time. But yeah, just give us a little bit of background, a little bit of all that stuff.
- Yeah, so I'm Joel. I live in Charlotte now, but-- - Dr. Joel. - Dr. Joel, that's right. Did a PhD in biblical theology and my dissertation was on Paul's household language and Ephesians,
particularly Ephesians 2, 18 through 22. And I kind of argue that-- when Paul's talking about this temple, like he's talking about the household of God, that the Greco -Roman world had this temple of Artemis that's everywhere.
So it's impossible for somebody to hear like the Greek word Oikos, the household and not think of the gods of the Greco -Roman world and particularly this temple of Artemis.
And so I'm like, you know, Paul's a good Jewish boy and there's definitely a Greco -Roman background, but he also has an Old Testament context. So I try to draw some connections between Ephesians two and the Tower of Babel all the way back in Genesis 11,
10, 11, and 12. And so anyways, I was born in the Chicagoland area. I watched Jordan win the three Pete. I cried when he went to go play baseball.
I sobbed uncontrollably when he actually did play baseball. - Because you just thought this is the stupidest thing ever? Or why is the goat doing this? this? I just didn't get it. To this day I don't get it because it robbed us Chicago natives of another three championships.
We would not be boasting of six championships, we'd be boasting of nine championships and his little escapades in baseball really really you know it did it did us in so but actually Michael come on in hold on he's here yeah talk about humility hi Hi,
goat. - Right. - So I actually lived two and a half years in India. My parents, my mom was finishing nursing school. My dad was working full -time as an x -ray technician and my grandparents are missionaries in India.
And so, you know, Tim and Ryan, the earliest memories I have are the story of Jesus, you know? And I'm Indian, like from India, obviously, and not the normative experience for an Indian to grow up in a Christian...
Christian household or family. And so for me, that was incredibly special. And then, you know, had a long kind of journey of just running from the Lord and running from his call in my life.
And along the way, I did a stint in music. I actually, my first ministry position was to serve as a worship leader. And I kind of realized along the way, like, man,
the things that I actually really love about leading... worship and about worship in general are the songs that we're singing and the lyrics. And like, what makes a song actually substantive? What is it about a song,
and it doesn't even have to be a Christian song, it can be any song, that has this ability to walk with us in the most craziest moments of our lives. And it's like, name the last sermon you listen to that you're just gonna quote verbatim.
verbatim for 30 minutes straight. It's like, not one, I don't have one, you know? Name the last song, you know, that was like monumental in your life. You could probably sing the whole thing if you needed to.
- Right, right. - And hum the lyric, right? And so that led me down the sort of theology. I'm like, wait a minute, like the best songs, and I would argue both in the Christian world and the non -Christian world, I think the best narrative is actually biblical narrative.
It's everywhere. And so that basically took me down a journey of academic study, biblical theology, and then I ended up working for a women's ministry.
I served as director of theology and research at Proverbs 31 Ministries. Everybody's like, "How does that work? You're a dude. You work in a women's ministry." It's very humbling. I'm one of five guys.
My boss is a gal named Lisa Turkerst, prolific author in her own right. Check actually wrote the forward from my book. And you know, one of the things that I just recognize along this entire journey is that the people in my life that I was the most like,
gosh, they seem like they have it together. They seem like even when they don't have it together, there's an internal fortitude that keeps them together. They want to fall apart like, what is this about these folks?
And I kind of trace it all. the way back to a moment in their life that their weakness and limits were exposed, you know?
And they got to like a foundational breaking moment and it was in that breaking moment that they actually learned how to truly trust in like the providence and the power and the control and the stability that only Jesus can provide.
And then I was like, wait a minute, there's a word for this. And the Bible talks about it all over the place. What is this? this word? And the word is humility. And that's kind of what took me on my journey to just even thinking about this topic over the last couple of years.
- Wow, I think we're done. I think that was enough, J slash K. Okay, so we are in a series on relationships right now. There's so many other things I'd love to get into.
But I think this concept of humility, it bleeds into humility. humility between us and God. Like there's this God, humility, person,
human relationship. There's this relationship between two people. You know, I was listening to a podcast of yours a while back on how to agree to disagree. - Yeah. - You know, where we're agreeing to disagree on things.
- Yeah. - There's humility there that has to be, and we're gonna jump into that even theologically. And then there's the self, like a humility or relationship. with myself like a right view of oneself That's my favorite definition that a friend gave me for humility.
Yeah, so with humility. Will you just give us your? Best elevator pitch for humility. Yeah, so I usually start this way You've probably heard it define probably the most popular definition of humility is Humility isn't thinking less of yourself.
It's thinking of yourself less often This is historically attributed to C .S. Lewis. It's debated in school now like whether Lewis actually said this or not, but that's kind of like where the tradition goes. And just like fair note,
incredibly dangerous to ever disagree with C .S. Lewis. Like you probably shouldn't wake up in the morning and think today's the day I'm going to go after Lewis, right? So I'm not gonna do that, but I am gonna suggest this,
that I don't think that biblical humility actually in fact starts with self. And you actually just described it to him, biblical humility for me is a three -part movement. and this three -part movement is first an authentic true honest awareness of who God is because if I know who God is that actually becomes the lens by which I can understand myself and so if you try to know yourself and know other people outside of
who God is it's gonna create chaos right you're going to misunderstand yourself which means you're gonna misinterpret your relationship with other people and all of that is chaos making But if you can have rightly ordered relationships,
well, how are relationships rightly ordered? It's first with an awareness of who God is and if I know who God is and I know who I am made in the likeness and image of God that gives you innate worth and dignity and value and Then if I know who God is and I know who myself is who I am in light of who God is This equips me with the power and the potential to pursue right relationships with other people,
where they're not pawns on our chessboard, that we're willing to sacrifice because we think we're the kings of our own castles. They're like image -bearers of God, they're brothers and sisters, you know? And in light of that,
like we ought to extend the same level of dignity and honor to them that we desire ourselves and this whole thing, the order matters. Like, I know God, we are the kings of our own castles. means that I can have peace with God.
Once I know God, I can actually have internal peace 'cause I know what God has given me in Christ. And if I know that I can internally have peace, like that creates the possibility for me to pursue true authentic relationships with other people.
But if you get the order jacked up, you're gonna have jacked up relationships. - Okay, give us an out of order version of that. - Yeah, so there's two ways I think I can have peace. that we can view the world.
The first view is, I'll use technical terms and I'll define it, it's an anthropocentric view of the world. Obviously you know what that means. Anthropocentric, I'm gonna throw your face. Anthropocentric,
say it one more time, sorry. The word just got real big. Yes, anthropocentric. So it comes from the Greek word anthropos and then centered, it just means human centered. Like, that's what anthropos means,
it's human centered. I joke, like this for me is the unholy trinity of me, myself, and I. And so then you have the other view, which is theocentric or Christocentric. This is theos, God,
or Christo Christ. It's a Christ centered view. The way that you view the world is going to determine the way in which you live inside of that world, right? The way I view the world,
say it again. The way I view the world is the world. in which I will live inside of that world. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Right? - Got it. - Okay. - Yep. - So with that being said, if you have an anthropocentric view,
like a me, myself, and I send out a few of the world. - Yep, yep, yep. - All of your relationships are going to be filtered through the lens of what can I get out of the relationship?
- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - How am I benefited? How does this build my brand? - How does this build my brand? How does this build my kingdom, right? And it's not that you don't have authentic relationships. It's just that all of your relationships are hinged.
They're contingent upon the good that you can receive, which instantly creates levels of relationship where you're always at the top and everybody else is always like ordered underneath you.
And it depends. Sometimes it's like, hey, this person has a lot to do. offer me today. Great, I'm going to elevate them. But in elevating them, I'm simultaneously, like, de -elevating. I'm de -escalating.
I'm putting other people down because I need to get something out of it. This is pride. You're fueling the meme monster that will never be satisfied.
It just won't be satisfied. So that disorder relationship right there, what it's going to create-- is an exchange type of economy in our relationships.
That if you can give me something that's great and the level to which you give me, I might be willing to reciprocate, you know? But at one point,
if that becomes misaligned or it's not equivalent anymore, then I can discard you. Like I can just throw you to the side. See, this is a me - center view. If you put God back into the center,
like if you view him, well now like love mercy, do justice, walk humbly with God. See, these virtues of the kingdom of God become elevated because when you do something kind,
when you live generously in light of other people, regardless of what they can give to you, you're actually living in step with God. You're actually like... modeling the virtues of the kingdom of God and that has immense value in God's kingdom that might be despised in the way of the world and so now you're actually engaging in a relationship and your value proposition in that relationship isn't contingent upon what you
can get or the value of what you give but it's actually first and foremost based upon the virtues of God's kingdom. kingdom, which changes kind of everything inside of that relationship.
And so I think that we live in a transaction economy, like we live in a transactional world, and that transactional kind of perspective is absolutely debilitating to our relationships.
I mean, isn't that, I mean, I lead worship. So that's one of the things that I get to do in life. And I'm looking at our songs and every one of our songs is just all me centric.
It's Anthros sphincteritis. - Yes. - What was the anthro? - Anthropocentric. - Whatever the anthro word. That's what I said. - Yeah. Hey, I want you to use that word. The next time you lead worship, I just want you to, like,
you know, you got that seven seconds that you can do it. - I still can't even say it. - I need you to say it. - Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I will put sphincter in there at some point and it's not gonna go well. - It's perfect. - But I mean, all of our songs, every one of them has this me element to it.
it. Which is fine, there's so much of that that's beautiful. But I just feel like it's so out of balance on, if the point is, and the end point is that we are,
because I have this humility with God and understanding of who I am with Him and then this understanding of who I am in it, then for me to go love one another is like the point. Like the biblical point.
Mm -hmm. And it seems like in Christendom we have pretty much stuck to this personal gospel. Yeah, I mean I was in a conversation with a friend the other day and we're talking about just like,
like here's a very vulnerable transparent kind of deal. One of the first, like I did a message on humility, you know, and I put it through like it was this like 45 minute sermon or whatever and I was trying to grab some clips.
for it to like use for like promotional material And there's this AI thing that you can just like put it in and it'll rate your viral ability right for you for your deal and It came back at like 12 % viral right in the description of why it was 12 % viral said Humility is not a viral topic and basically And basically people want felt needs that are immediate to that.
- Totally, totally. - And so I was having this conversation, like this was almost a year and a half ago when that had happened. That took a screenshot actually of that thing it's on my desktop. And I was talking to a friend just recently about this and to your point,
like there's a reason why those songs pop off and there's a reason why we're drawn to that. It's because we can see ourselves, we can feed ourselves. the thing that we're longing for.
But the concern that I have, and this is why I think humility is really vital that we retrieve, is that is short -lived. Like something that's viral last maybe 24,
48 hours at best and then you move on to the next thing. And it's like, what is the Christian life? The Christian life is actually antithetical to viral tendencies.
It's not, it's, it... doesn't care so much about your felt needs. It's not that your felt needs don't matter, it's just that your felt needs are ordered within the context of who God is as king and how he created you as an image bearer,
you know? And that actually has lasting value, not like a short -circuited fire rocket that bursts into the sky and then just disappears right after that. And so the Christian life is slow growth,
but we don't want slow growth. We want instant. instant. We want what feeds our emotional diet of the day. And if we don't have that fed, we get angry and then we just go to the next thing that we think will feed us.
And then that thing gets us angry and then we start to spiral out of control and then, you know, this is the pathway to addictions and drugs and pornography. I mean, all the things that are absolutely detrimental to human to human relationships start with this cycle.
cycle and the spiral? Let's start with relationship with God. So if that's kind of the starting place, is that what you'd said? Yeah. I mean, if you've got this three -prong, that the starting with this relationship with God,
humility with this relationship with God, are there practices in the way of humility with God? Like, what's that even look like? I mean, we grew up with,
do you have a relationship with God? I mean, that's, you know, I don't know what... side of the world. I mean, you're in India, I don't know how long you were there, but it was big on, do you have a relationship with God? It's all, it's not about a religion, it's a relationship.
And so it's like, great, you have a relationship. You talk every day, you guys figure this out, like there's just this one way of doing it. And I'm like, crap, I'm not good at it. I must suck at this. Yeah. So what does this look like?
And especially from your context of theology, I mean, you, you have stuck with it. so much in the way of theology, not just in like Christendom, Christian talk, but in like, how does the Bible see relationship with God and humility?
And then we're going to get into self and then others. This is, I mean, we could have a whole episode just on this, and I'm going to do my very best to try to be succinct and to the point. But I think for the most part, how we've understood God has actually jacked up our entire theology.
Like in say that one more time, say that one more time. Yeah, like like for the most part, the way that we've been taught or the way that we view God has jacked up our entire theology. - Okay. - So fundamentally we were missing the primary way that God has portrayed throughout the scriptures,
which friend, yes, somebody who loves us, yes. The creator of the cosmos, absolutely. We're getting closer.
but what is the primary term that God is viewed as throughout the scriptures that actually orders all those other adjectives that describe him? He's the king. He's the king of the cosmos and we are not.
Right? Like that's the way that the Genesis story opens. So in Eden, God plants a garden. The garden is called Eden in the ancient Near Eastern world, kings planted gardens and they would have their royal children inhabit the garden with them.
But the king is the one who's doing it all, the king is the one who's inviting them in, the king is the one who's initiating this. And so if we just view the Eden narrative of like God's a good dad and he wants to be with his children,
like that's the right story, but it's not framed appropriately. God's not just a dad, he's the king. king who happens to be our dad, right? Like,
that changes everything. Like, the new heavens, the new earth, the kingdom of God will not be a democracy. We won't have a right and a left. We won't have different political parties. He's king,
we're citizens of his kingdom. And by the way, good news, we happen to be royal children. That's amazing. But you can't just hype up like that. we're the royal children without accounting for he's the king of the cosmos.
That is the first and foremost understanding of that. And here's something super fascinating that in Genesis 2, 15, and 16, the description of Adam and Eve and all of humanity that we're described to be made in the likeness and image of God.
There are two Hebrew words here, Demut and Shalem. These two words are used throughout ancient Eastern writing to describe children of the royal king. So even the language of sonship and daughtership is framed in royal kingly terms.
Yes, right? So now think about this. This is like the famous Louis, C .S. Lewis quote with Aslan. You know, like, is he safe? Is he dangerous? Like, Lucy, she has this whole thing.
And it's like, man, how would we... live in light of who God is if we just retrieve the simple concept that he is the king and the king carries power.
He has all authority and his word goes. It would change the way that we live. It would change the way that we pray. It would change the way that we relate to other image bearers.
And so I would say, yeah, like this first and foremost thing, like biblically theological. theologically, maybe the most neglected aspect of who God is in my vantage point,
particularly in a Western, you know, kind of world is this idea that he's the king and we live in his kingdom as citizens and children. How does that change the way that you pray?
- Street level. - Yeah. - On a day -to -day, moment -to -moment, how do that change the way that you pray? - Yeah, it creates reverence. It creates reverence in my language with him.
I want to be honest, but I also want to always remember, this is holy, there's an otherness to this. And this is a famous quote from a poet,
but basically he says that our words build worlds and we're forced to inhabit that. And so like, like think about our prayers. Our prayers are in fact building types of worlds that we have to inhabit.
And so the words that we're using with God are really important. I'm not saying that there's not room for honesty. I'm not saying that there's not room for just like everyday language speech.
I'm just saying that in our everyday language speech that we communicate to God, if we have the lens that he's King, if we have the lens that he's King, if we have the lens that he's King, the way that we talk to him. And then it actually eases a little bit of the relational tension of the outcome of the prayers.
If we approach God as a genie in a bottle, we're going to be disappointed consistently. Like you and I are not Aladdin and our wives are not Jasmine. Like that's not how life is working in the kingdom of God.
God is not a genie in a bottle. He's the king. And so in light of that, it's like, Oh, wait. I can submit honest pleas before the king. And then no, after I've submitted this thing,
man, it's in his hands. And it's the best hands to be in. And I can like release myself from what the outcome is. It doesn't mean that you don't, you're not pained if you don't get the outcome that you want.
But it does mean that if God withheld something from you... there is an ultimate good that even if we don't see on this side of a turn that we will come to find is actually so much better than we couldn't perceive in our like limited,
worldly vision. - So now when something happens that sucks, that's just not the way that we have hoped, what does humility look like to be pissed with and at God.
-god? - So I have a whole chapter of my book that's called "When Bad Things Happen to Humble People." And this is that question.
And, you know, when I was writing this chapter, there were a couple of things that were happening in my life personally. A couple of years before this, my cousin, I call her my cousin, she's a close, close family friend in Indian culture,
we kind of call each other, you know, a cousin's, brother's, sister's. like that. And very close family friend. She was in college at UIC and she was murdered on her college campus one night as she was walking home.
It made the news, it was on all the major news channels. It was literally days before Thanksgiving, just brutal. And you're just like, she's the sweetest, her name's Ruthie.
Ruthie was her mama's shadow. The sweetest like. like Sharon PowerPoint for her church worship like every Sunday. She's that Ruthie's back You're like one of the most humble people I know like how do I make sense of this and so that language like being pissed at God?
That's so real. This is the majority of like a lot of what the Psalms like that is the language of the Psalms so much of this You know Eugene Peterson draws is not so beautifully. Yes, two of my close friends around this time one was my doctor advisor,
my second reader, Dr. Michael Heiser, was diagnosed with stage four pancreatic cancer. I just submitted chapter three of my dissertation and Mike responded back and he was like,
"Don't even think about getting us another reader. I'm gonna see you through this." Man's fighting for his life, you know? And a close friend of mine, Pete Heinegger, was diagnosed with stage four colon cancer. And I had the privilege to be able to read out.
I wrote about him in this chapter and I got to read to him that section. I went into this chapter really trying to figure out how do we make it through this?
I'm looking for answers to all of this. The answer that I got was not the one that I wanted but it's the one that we need and you might be frustrated with what I say.
I'm frustrated with what I'm about to say. But my frustration with what I'm about to say doesn't negate the truth of that matter, right? It just means I'm gonna have to go to therapy and deal with this with my therapist.
Like that's kind of what that means. And so throughout the scriptures consistently when we are asking God, why are bad things happening to these good and humble people,
God isn't committed to giving us that. answers to the why. He's committed to showing us the who that walks with us in the midst of it. So this is Job.
Every why question that Job is asking, God responds in this rhetorical fashion in the Hebrew Bible with, and where were you? Yeah. And where were you?
And in fact, like in Hebrew poetry, we read this in English and we're like, man, God's going to be a little bit like, sh. sure, like he's whooping, yeah, he's whooping, he's whooping on Joe. What's fascinating about Hebrew poetry is that actually the style of conversation would be,
would have been the style of a father inviting a child, his son, into conversation to teach and to learn. So it's, in fact, there's a little softness to this that we miss 'cause we just aren't aware of the kind of that Hebrew poetic nature of this.
And it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's like, we could get the answers to the why. You know, there's like the famous, you know, the more money, more problems idea. I mean,
man, that's so true with these situations. We can get the why, but the more answers we get, the more questions we're gonna have. Our hearts are never gonna be actually satisfied even if we get the answer.
But what can get us through these things? things? It's Psalm 46, "The Lord of hosts is with us. The God of Jacob is our stronghold. Come," like verse 8,
"behold, see, witness the works of God." And there's nothing more satisfying, peaceful, promising of hope for us in those situations when we're pissed with God than to look over and be like,
like, "Oh, and he's still with us, and he's still walking with us, and he's not going to abandon us." The darkest day in human history was the day that Jesus hung on the cross,
and the text says that the whole world turned dark on that day. Why? Because it's a physical representation of a supernatural and spiritual reality that God even turned.
The Father turns his back on the Son. I mean, talk about blowing your theological mind and framework that in that moment, Jesus was truly alone so that you and I would never have to be truly alone ever again,
even if we feel loneliness 'cause he's present with us through it. - Okay, yeah, we could have a whole season just on that one. Or you could almost write a whole book.
I've got this really good idea of called "The Hidden Peace of Christmas." Christmas. The holy, the pissed piece. Okay. Okay. Humility with self.
Go. What's a practice there? Like this right view of oneself that you said is not, it's not dogging on yourself just all like I'm the worst,
I'm such a sinner, all that stuff. So what does this look like and what is a practical way of? living this out look like? - Yeah, I think humility with yourself is just recognition of who you are and the way that God has wired you where you don't have to belittle the strengths that God has given you,
but you don't have to fear the weaknesses that are inherently present inside of your life. Like your weaknesses-- - You don't have to belittle the strengths and you don't have to-- - Fear the weaknesses.
- Fear the weaknesses, okay. - Yeah, those are the opposites. It's like the strengths is like, I don't talk about it, don't, like, I don't, you know. And then the weaknesses, it's like-- - Like false humility, like, I don't wanna, I don't wanna talk about this gift of mine 'cause I'm gonna sound awesome.
- Yeah, like honestly the most, and I've learned this even like with preaching and teaching, it's like, I had a mentor once say to me like, Joel, when somebody says, great job, like, and they're just, you know, the best answer you can have is,
man, thank you, that means a lot to me. - Yeah. - And move on. - Yeah. - Right? Like that whole like, oh, it's not me, it's God. I'm just a humble servant of the Lord most. Like all that kind of rhetoric,
it's just false humility. It's hidden pride in your heart, you know? And so the gift of humility, like it helps you to be like, man, I'm grateful that God has given me these gifts. And I'm grateful that I can use them.
And you know what? - Yeah. - Yeah, I do feel good about myself when I'm-- able. Those aren't things to despise. Here's the problem with that though, is when you and I try to absorb God's glory,
that absorption of glory that's only designed and aimed at God, that God's only one that should get it, it will be self -destructive for your life.
You and I were never designed in our humanity to absorb God's glory, but you know what we are? We're perfect reflectors of God's glory. But, you know, that puts us in a precarious position because we've got to learn how to mediate the response and praise of people in a way that's like,
hey, like, yeah, God did use me and God is using me and that's a good thing. And it's all aimed back at God, you know? And so this is like for the self part of it,
humility. humility looks at our strengths and Helps us to in a healthy way celebrate them You know just like yeah, I'm happy about that and it looks bear of God.
Yeah, like that look like you got in this way Yeah, yes, you know, it's like when my when my You know when people say like things about my kids and like oh we can totally see Joel there Like that makes me happy right like I'm like yeah,
unless it's something like bad and then I'm like oh man. - Yeah. - You know? But like-- - Yeah. He is an idiot, yeah. - Yeah, he's like, yeah. But like, these are good things. And see, it's modeled in our relationships too. Like we now,
like it's like, okay. Then the second part about it with our weaknesses is it eases the stress that we feel to cover up our weaknesses and to hide our limitations.
I think it's fascinating that we-- - Certainly. way. - It eases the stress, it eases the stress for us to cover up our weaknesses or to avoid our limitations. So let me give you an example.
There's a multi -billion dollar industry right now that's all based off of coloring up people's white hair, right? I am now at an age where the white is coming in in all kinds of different places,
and I swear to you, that Instagram, face all of them, they're feeding me all of the commercials. Color up people's-- hair, you know, like why do we want to color it up? What is this thing inside of us that's like,
don't show evidence of your aging, color it up and make yourself, this is as ancient as the fountains of youth. This, there's nothing new and novel. Like these are ancient stories that are dealing with ancient plights that people have been dealing with.
And what humility does for us is say, and you know what? there's something good about my limits. There's something good about my weaknesses. There's something great about my inability 'cause it's in those places that I can recognize my humanity.
And being human is okay. We live in a fallen world. Like it's okay to make mistakes. That is fine. And it ends up being that this is for me the gift of humility is the gift of self -awareness.
-awareness, that when we can see our limits and our weaknesses and just handle them rightly, those end up becoming the perfect places that we're inviting the power of God into our lives. 'Cause we're like, I can't do it, I just can't do it.
So I need somebody else to come in and help me. - So if there's a practice, 10 ,000 minutes, the whole podcast is this idea of how do we practice and join Jesus in the 10 ,000 minutes of our week. There are 10 ,000,
80 minutes a week, 80 of those minutes, people spend in a church gathering of some kind. which is great. But there are 10 ,000 minutes until we gather again and I'm awesome in the 80 and I'm slow to join Jesus in the 10 ,000 minutes.
And we're trying to just say, I just wanna practice blessing my enemy, the guy who cut me off or practice, just seeing, having a right view of oneself. So if there's a practice for humility with oneself,
what does that look like? - So this is what I would ask you to do, very, very practical, incredibly simple, but, but far from being simplistic. And you can do this like literally right now. And actually, you don't have to wait for what the weather is like.
This is what you do. I did this other day. It was raining like cats and dogs here in Charlotte and I did with my kids, it was awesome. I want you to go outside. I want you to take your socks off, your shoes off, take your feet,
put them in the cold of the grass. I want you to look up into the heavens. If it's nighttime, stare at the stars, if it's daytime, pay attention to the clouds and the sun. sun, where it is. And I want you to simply say,
when we did this other day, it was raining like crazy. So we're just being drenched in this water. My kids think it's amazing, right? And we're just sitting out there, and I want you to just say this simple thing, and I didn't have to do a thing to hold all this together.
You didn't have to do a thing. And then you can quote John chapter, if you memorize one section of scripture, I would-- would recommend memorizing John chapter one, the first couple sentences. I memorized this early in ministry days and it has been with me forever.
In the beginning was the word. The word was with God, the word was God. Through him all things were made. Without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life and that life was the light of man. Like you can sit there in that moment,
you can recognize. I had nothing to do with keeping all these things in control. But who does? Jesus. Jesus. All things are held together through him, for him,
and by him. And if that's the case, the moments of instability, the moments of fear in your life, the moments where you are just faced with your weakness, those are the places that we go,
okay, it might feel like things are falling apart in my life. And it might be true, but the world is still held together by Jesus. - Yeah. Yeah, which helps us on both sides. It helps us.
us from being too, to God -like, because it's like, no, not my role. He's God, I'm not. And then it also helps us on the other side, as far as being too hard on ourselves when we know that we've got him with us.
Like, I'm so terrible. God, why would you want to be with me? Okay, third rung, which is relationships with other. Humility and... relationships with other people.
Yeah. Go, because this is where, I mean, I love that you kind of have this on the third part of it. It's like, if the first two are working, then we can do this in a healthy way.
So what does it look like to not just be a doormat and what's it look like to walk with humility? Yeah, so I think there are a couple of things here. Yeah. One is we've done a really horrible job,
I think, at times with this concept of theological triage. And so what that simply means is being able to rightly order our theological views by importance,
by how essential they are. So it's like primary, secondary, and tertiary. - Yeah, yeah, tertiary, right. - Okay, so primary, the death, burial, resurrection, ascension of Christ.
I'm gonna die on that hill, right? Humanity means likeness and image of God. Gonna die on that hill. Like, these are things I'm not willing to compromise on. Secondary issues,
you know? Method of baptism. Do you baptize your babies? Do you only baptize adults? Your view on eschatology, end times, right? Secondary issues.
Speaking in tongues, are you charismatic or are you not charismatic? you're not sensational secondary? Yeah third Category are you a pews person or do you like nice comfy theater type chairs in your church building?
Are you a lights person or do you want like stained glass when like those are tertiary? Yeah, what we've done is we've taken secondary in tertiary and we've elevated them to the areas of primary and it is creating like relational turmoil turmoil in our lives because we haven't rightly ordered these things.
What is the gift of humility? It regains our awareness of where things ought to be. So we know how to relate to other people. This is the other thing I think is so vital in our relationships with humility.
That humility is actually the very thing that we can leverage and utilize in order to establish appropriate boundaries in relationships. If you don't have boundaries.
boundaries in your relationships at the right time with the right people, you're going to have chaotic relationships 'cause everybody's going and running by their own motives, their own feelings,
their own ambitions. So like, how does that work? In the ancient world, you would build a town or a city and in order to protect your city, you would build a big old wall, right?
A big old wall, you surround your entire thing and then you would put a gate so people can count on you. in and out and you would position watchtowers all over the city so the watchtowers are looking out and they're able to identify friends they're able to identify enemies like this is essential imagine building that exact same thing without the gate or the watchtowers what do you have a prison and you're smack in the
middle of it so humility is what protects our hearts from becoming becoming concrete in human -to -human relationships. It keeps the potential to have a soft heart,
but be firm in our decision -making and in our convictions, right? So humility lets us look at and say, "Huh, this conversation about politics seems to always go sideways with my friends,
right?" And this is probably a secondary or tertiary issue. always go sideways with my friends, right?" And humility lets us look at and say, "Huh, this conversation about politics seems to And humility lets us look at and say, "Huh, this conversation about politics seems to And humility lets us look at and say, "Huh, this conversation about politics seems to always go sideways with my friends, right?" And humility lets us
look at and say, "Huh, this conversation about politics seems to in humility, I'm gonna recognize, I don't wanna be all out of sorts, internally chaotic. I don't want my relationship with this person to be thrown all out of sorts because we can't agree on this thing.
So what do we do? You'd be like, hey, when we get together, I wanna talk about LeBron versus MJ. I wanna talk about Deep Dish versus New York. I'll debate all those things with you.
but I'm not gonna debate politics with you. We've tried it, we've gone there. We clearly are on different sides and that's okay. Let's focus on these other areas. See humility equips us to be able to have those types of conversations with other people that present like rightly ordered relationships.
So you're not having to live in constant chaos. There might be other stuff, right? Like from a faith standpoint that you have a, friend who's just like, hey, I don't really believe in Jesus anymore. Like I don't believe in the church.
Like, and they're doing a type of deconstruction that's like self -destruction, right? Like they're just going down. It's not like, here are just some views that I have to change. I've done a lot of theological deconstruction in my life.
You know, I actually think deconstruction is theologically good, depending on what you're actually deconstructing, you know? And you're not trying to rip out the pillars and the foundation of your house. And so in that situation, like,
well, how do we, this is humility. Humility is like, well, wait a minute, there's still an image bearer of God. They can deny Jesus all they want. It doesn't mean that Jesus can't love them or that they don't have a place in the family.
Like they're just made this so, what do I do? I changed my view and my orientation of how I relate to this person. Now I just say, oh, I'm gonna show the God, like I'm gonna be the gospel.
I'm gonna embody the life of Christ. with this person and consistently just try to like woo them back to Christ through my words, through my actions, through my love, through my affection,
and I'm gonna create a boundary because now this person is probably not the safest place for me to go and get biblical wisdom, counsel,
right? So humility helps us to be aware of the nature of our relationship. relationships with other people where we can have the best of the relationship and also be in a place where we can evaluate and analyze the relationship if there's places of disagreement or dysfunction where we can still be in a relationship potentially and not be thrown all out of sorts.
And sometimes you can't be in a relationship. That's what humility will do. You'd be like, "Oh, this is just unhealthy all the way around." spiritually, emotionally and physically. I'm out of what? Okay. So this would be a really different definition for humility in most people's minds with,
in regards to somebody else, like humility, we generally think would be, Nope, I'm gonna be the one who takes it just takes the beating and I'll pull back like with my wife.
That was something I did for years and I still find myself doing like she'll do something and say something that hurts me or just do something that hurts my feelings. And I'll just kind of go,
oh, it's okay. I'm just, I'm gonna be fine. I'm gonna push past it. And I play this like, I'm just gonna serve her. She wants to do it like this. I'm just gonna serve her. Which actually isn't even at the core of my heart.
Humility isn't even there. I'm actually just getting back at her by trying to be a Christian, you know? So. think that's kind of the view of humility that most of us would have. It wouldn't actually mean boundaries.
So what's your definition of humility when it comes to this? Yeah, so-- It seems like you were just saying, humility is actually boundaries, which is very different from the normal definition of humility.
Yeah, humility is the lens by which we can actually establish appropriate boundaries. Without humility, your boundaries are going to become all about self -preservation.
And if all of your boundaries are about self -preservation, the conversation will cease becoming a monologue between one person and the dialogue that it needs to be between two people. Gosh,
what a different way to see humility. So I said the lens by which we can establish appropriate boundaries. boundaries. So humility is a right view of oneself, like a holistic view of oneself,
seeing all the angles and how we're loved, how we're beautiful, and we have flaws. Our relationship should be affirming that, and vice versa. And one of the ways I can do that is through boundaries.
Boundaries that not only benefit me and protect me but keep me out of things that bring chaos to the relationship. relationship. So if God made us all on this image, we are treating people through that lens.
Are the conversations we're having lately disrupting or affirming the way God sees us? I don't know, I think it's a great way for us to rethink humility this week by treating ourselves and others the way that God sees us as children of the king.
Can you think of a time just in the past week when you did not see people in that way? light or yourself in that light? And then what would that look like tomorrow with the people that you're going to come in contact with tomorrow or today to look at them through those lenses,
through the lens of how God sees us? Humility keeps dialogue possible.
Pride takes dialogue and turns it into monologue. And so this is kind of where, like with boundaries, it's so, so important because you can have the right conversations, but you can cease having the wrong conversations.
The problem is we end up spending more time and energy in the wrong conversations and we're not having the right conversations. So humility ends up being this funnel that helps us be like, "Oh no, this is where this needs to happen." happen." That example that you just gave to,
I think, is really important, because remember, I talked about the movement. Humility is first knowing God, knowing ourselves, and knowing others. So here's what humility will say. "Is my image being dishonored in these actions?" I'm an image bearer of God.
Is the image of God actually being dishonored in the way that I'm being treated? Well, you have dignity, and you've got worth, and God doesn't deserve it. for you to be dishonored.
And so what humility does is like, oh, no, I'm not, I can forgive, which is a legal release. And then I can create boundaries and create a separation, which is necessary because we're responsible to honor the image of God,
both in ourselves and in others. And so humility ends up becoming a helpful dialogue partner of just asking that introspective question of, am I being treated like a doormat? And And if that's the case,
like, you know? - Yeah, you're so right. Again, the definition I was given was a right view of oneself, a correct view of oneself and a whole view of oneself. And if I have a whole view of myself as this beautiful loved child of God in the king's family,
I don't deserve to be treated like this. That is actual humility. That's really interesting. - Think about it this way too. If one of your kids... kids is dishonored, how do you feel? Oh my gosh. Nuts.
I go nuts. Okay. Just think about God. That's the imagery. He is king and he is our dad. In some ways, that is flowing out into a type of dishonoring of God himself.
That familial language is so important, you know, throughout Scripture. And I think that that actually should help us in how we relate to God. the other people perspective, but then also how to maintain this sense of like,
no, like I deserve to be treated right because I'm created in my God, in my dad's image. Like I'm created in the image and likeness of God and that has worked. So to dishonor me, to have a personal dishonoring is in effect dishonoring God himself,
you know? And we see it play out in human to human relationships. Somebody comes after my kids, like, no man, I'm playing that game. So just imagine how God would feel. - Yeah, and yet on the other side,
humility is also what Jesus experienced and invited us into through his own life more than almost anything. - Anything else, the incarnation. - The incarnation,
I mean, literally him going, I'm actually gonna take up my cross and bless the crazy people who are killing me. I mean, so you've got both these sides.
of humility, which is just fascinating. - Yeah, and so like, you know, wouldn't it be so nice if humility was a checkbox that we can move on from? - Right. - And it's not. Humility is not a checkbox that we can move on from.
Humility is in fact the soil of the Christian life that we live from. And like, and that soil imagery is what Paul uses consistently throughout the New Testament in reference to humility, you know?
And it's like, oh, okay, what do we do with soil? We do. We tend to it, we cultivate it, we make sure it's healthy. We protect it from being poisoned or compromised.
Compromised soil creates compromised fruit. Good soil produces good fruit. And so the soil of humility, the nature of that soil in our lives is going to show itself out in how we live and how we act and how we talk.
And, you know, this is slow growth. Like, that's why I just keep going back to this idea. that the Christian life is slow growth and that soil imagery is so important in light of that. - Joel,
so freaking good, dude. That is gold. Ryan and I are going to talk about you in a second behind your back, but before we do-- Can I just say one thing? - Nope,
not right now. - Okay, correct. - Totally go, of course. - No, clearly this is the most in -depth and involved I've ever been in any podcast. So thank you guys for having I know you really appreciate all my wisdom and insight that I've you know contributed,
but I think something you said Joe a moment ago was I think really profound in we're talking about God's perspective and And I heard you know one of my favorite pastor friends He says he said something years ago that just kind of went off of me and kind of really sent me personally I a journey in regards to humility.
He said humility is agreement with God's perspective. He says, you know, if he calls you the first and not the last above only and not beneath a lender,
not a borrower, if he calls you the righteousness of God in Christ, if he calls you a son, then you need to expect to be treated as a son. If he calls you a daughter, you need to inspect and anticipate the treated as a daughter.
And I think that, man, we tend to, especially in the West here in Western evangelicalism, our propensity is to earn and to strive and to really put in our best effort to try to kind of get into a place that we already are.
And I feel like if you is agreeing with God's perspective concerning us, that is the thing that I think really does free us.
And it's freed me to have such authentic relationship with people. It's changed my conversations. It's changed the way I have judged people understanding who we are in Christ.
I feel like how you said earlier. is that soil, our identity as beloved sons and daughters of the king is that primary foundational soil of authentic,
you know, humility and authentic relationship. So that's just my two cents. - So good. - So good. Joel, quick, this is just a quick round. We've got a few minutes left,
10 ,000 thoughts. (upbeat music) I need both of you guys to answer this. Favorite food, go. - Pizza, if I'm not in Chicago,
New York style. If I'm in Chicago, deep dish. - Cinnamon toast crunch. - Obvious, wow. Okay, pet peeve, Joel, go. - When people start to eat before a movie actually starts,
like if you're sitting down to eat a movie or to eat and there's a movie playing, you have to go to a movie theater. to wait to actually eat until the movie starts. - I don't know if I've experienced this before.
Just like at your house, is this? - This is just me. I'm just, I'm broken like that. There's my wife. - No, trust me, we all see it. But is like, are you at a movie theater? Are you at a-- - Oh yeah,
movie theater, I'm not eating until, if we're at a movie theater, I'm not eating until the movie starts. The credits don't count. Like it's gotta be the first time scene of the movie. And then go for it. - Popcorn? Popcorn, is it like, don't have a bite? - If you wanna do unpopular opinions,
I hate popcorn, so I don't eat popcorn. I don't eat regular potato chips. Like, I'm not a potato fan. I love me some Doritos, like nacho cheese and ranch. That's cool. But if you ask, you're like,
"Hey, here's a bag of Lay's potato chips." Like, there's a reason why in the multi -box where it has all the fun flavors, that the Lay's potato chips are always the last to be eaten. - Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They suck.
They're not good. What do you really think? Okay, Ryan, pet peeve. Oh, that's easy. When my wife asks me to do something for her, but then tells me how to do it. Like,
like stands there and says, Hey, can you do this? And then I'll start doing it. She's like, can you not do it that way? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'll edit that out. So you can't hear that part. Okay.
Most recent thing that made you laugh. - Oh man, yeah, I tried to put my daughter's, I put my daughter's sleep last night and she was supposed to be in bed by like 8, 8 p .m. No, 7 p .m.
Put her up at 7 p .m. And my wife and I are rewatching Lost and so it's like 9 p .m. or something like that, almost 10, and I walk out and I'm like, this is bad. I'm eating chocolate rice cakes with peanut butter and jelly.
It's my favorite thing, it's like late night snack. My daughter walks out of her room and she looks at me and she goes, she's four years old. She goes, Dada, I cleaned my whole bedroom. It's cleaned,
I put all my toys away. But like the dogs, I combed the dog's hair. Like she's going into all these things. I'm like, M, you're supposed to be in bed. Not in a cleaning mission for you.
But you know what this morning we checked? That room is clean. That girl, she had done a wardrobe change. She had cleaned all this. I'm like. this is, and I just started laughing. I was like, that's funny. - Yeah, that's strong.
Okay, right. - Same thing, Sam, my four -year -old daughter, she makes me laugh every single day with some crazy, just off the cuff. She's the sassy one in our home.
She's the baby, you know? So she's always coming up with like, just some wild personality zinger that works. don't know how that got in there.
But it's always like, it's just hilarious. And she makes us laugh. She's free entertainment all the time. - Kids, and you know what the best part is? Parenting is so easy. So that's the great thing.
Okay. - Right. - Joel, hidden talent, go quick. - Oh, hidden talent. Gosh, I don't know, guys, what's hidden talent? I can typically hit a three point shot pretty good.
like college or high school. NBA threes are hard for me in my age, but I'm a pretty decent spot -up shooter. - Yeah, flex that crap.
Okay, Ryan. - Man, I would say I'm actually pretty darn good at a yo -yo. - Wow, you can walk the dog instead? - I can,
I can do all kinds of little tricks. - You can put the baby - - Dang it, I wanna see that. Put the baby to sleep. Okay, last one, current obsession, Joel. - Right now,
I am currently obsessed with that new show called Shogun. - I've not partaken. - Dude, it is so good. It's excellent,
yeah. - Ooh, Ryan. - Yeah, that is a good one, Joel. - So I am currently obsessed with ancient history documentaries. Yes,
you are. You totally are. Yeah. I'm just I'm mesmerized. Yeah, I haven't watched a movie in maybe two years because all I do is spend my time watching. Ancient documentaries straight up Nerdville.
And I love it. I love it. Joel, Ryan, thank you so much. Joel, thank you. That's really, really beautiful. Yeah. Really, really beautiful. So people,
I mean, you've got a podcast that you're doing regularly. Is that true? - Yeah, so I've got a podcast that's just kind of like my theological nerding out. It's just called theology talk. It's,
I can't be, I'll be honest with y 'all. I'm not, I'm so, I do all the things that you're not supposed to do with podcasting. I'm inconsistent. I do random stuff on there. Whatever I'm thinking about is the thing that I, that I podcast about.
- Yeah. then if you want consistency and if you want to feel like I've got my act together, then you want to listen to the therapy and theology podcast, because there's a team that makes sure that I don't screw things up on that.
And so that's with me, Lisa and Jim. Perfect. Love it. Well, thank you so much. We'll have blurry creature conversations another time. We can talk about Satan.
If you want to do that, talk about the pride of Satan. Satan. Humility and pride of Satan, that's next. So how does that hit you?
What did you see? Like what sparked in you? Incredibly informative. I think the thing that I went away with the most was I just made so many parallels to what Joel was saying.
as like he said something he said the unholy trinity is me myself and I and I relate at this point in my life I the journey that the Lord has had me on it in humility and understanding my beloved status and my beloved nature as a son which has been given me humility which has given me great which has given me patience,
which is beginning to instill all these fruits of the spirit inside of me, foundationally has come through the soil of being rooted and established in my beloved identity as a son.
I don't think that humility and any authentic fruit fruit can come outside of us knowing who we are.
And I think that I heard that over and over again today was, you know, us coming to the revelation in our heart of knowing how God feels about us.
His perspective, humility is agreement with God's perspective of who He says we are, not out yet. feel or what I think on it,
given David, the truth and the fact and the fundamental baseline of my existence is that I am the righteousness of God and Christ. The finished works of Yeshua on the cross did it all.
And now coming into that revelation, as Joel said, that frees me, it makes me so free. to be such an immeasurable.
It makes me so free to flawlessly and effortlessly just love people and not try to get somebody from outside in, but to how did he say,
"They're a child of God. "They just don't know it right now," you know? Or they're having some questions right now. I like that. I thought that was just so beautiful. - Yeah, and humble. So for you,
what is the thing that pulls you out of humility, this agreeing with what God says about you? And then what are the ways that are helpful when you kind of sober up for a moment?
- A hundred percent. - So what pulls you out and what pulls you back? I think what pulls me out is future tripping. tripping. What pulls me out is worry, concern, fear about things that may not ever happen,
that have not happened, probably will never happen. And I feel like at the root of all dysfunctional behaviors just straight up, again, a bankrupt identity.
Like the Greek word hammartia to be absent or without form of our present reality. -designed intention. MRT, the Greek word for sin, is without the allotted portion or form.
It's being outside of our pre -designed intention. And when I choose not to walk in the knowledge of who I am, I start doing a lot of bankrupt things.
And I start fearing. I start treating people like garbage. I start having, I'm moody. moody, I'm controlling. I'm all the things that we hate. And I feel like what jars me back into a place of humility is one thing and that is gratitude.
You know, I feel like anxiety and gratitude cannot occupy the same space. So when I'm starting to feel all those things, I just start being thankful. Say,
Lord, I'm so sorry. I'm so thankful for everything, for life, for breath, for health, for my family, for my kids. Like, I think gratitude really does help me snap back into that place of just simple humility and rest.
(upbeat music) (upbeat music) All right, here's the rest. recap of the recap of the recapped conversation. So just a few things that got to me that I,
as I've re -listened, I'm like, "Oh goodness, that was really beautiful." Humility starts by rethinking humility, not as thinking less of oneself, but thinking of oneself less often.
Ooh, that is so good. I'm thinking of oneself less often. All right, try to put that one under practice. The other few more points. So when it comes to humility ourselves and false humility,
it's about accepting our weaknesses to avoid falling into false humility. It's like going, this is the stuff that is not awesome in me and God is at work in and I'm at work in,
you know, these types of things instead of just leaning into false humility, so good. The third one is humility invites us to extend. dignity and honor to others. So by me walking with great humility and true humility invites us,
invites me to extend dignity and honor to others. And one way we can do that is by setting boundaries to keep the chaos out. I loved that concept. So the main practice for this week that I have,
and you might have your own, and please let us know what that is. You can go to any of our socials and let us know. But my practice that I'd love for us to try is to treat yourself and others like God does.
I mean, it sounds so simple, but what would it look like to treat ourselves and others like God does? We're all made in the image of God. Are we treating ourselves and each other in this way?
And this is where staying humble helps us continue to see and treat each other as children of God. So would you practice this? with us this week? Treat yourself and others like God does.
All right, people, let us know how this practice is going for you. Please go to our Facebook group. We would love to talk with you there and learn from you there. The links of the show notes, obvious.
Let's practice this as a community. So who can you be practicing this stuff with? This is wonderful just to do by yourself, but you guys, I really know that this works when we do this with friends. friends. So please jump in,
invite a friend into this. Thanks for listening. Subscribe to the podcast, share it, put likes on there if you actually liked it. And if you're this far, I hope you liked it. I also signed up for a free encouraging text message.
59925, 59925, 59925, 59925. Again, song I'm working on, but you put the number 599... 59925 in your phone device,
and then in the text line, you can just put "Timmons" or you can put "10k10k". Okay, that's it. Love you guys. I can't wait to hear how this stuff's going,
how the practices are going. Okay, bye. Oh, and to Josh, who's editing this, and please keep this in, you're doing a great job. Just don't blow this one. You know what I mean? Don't blow it.
Okay, the episode is now officially done.