Season 3 is all about relationships, the ways we navigate them and practices to help relationships thrive. Today, best selling author, Sara Hagerty, encourages us to reflect on our limitations and begin to reflect on the motivation behind our prayers.
Episode Summary: Season 3 is all about relationships, the ways we navigate them and practices to help relationships thrive. Today, best selling author, Sara Hagerty, encourages us to reflect on our limitations and begin to reflect on the motivation behind our prayers.
Practice: Pray Vulnerable Prayers: Pray like God can hold it all! Be curious about the motivations behind your prayers.
Show Notes:
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The Gift of Limitations Book
(upbeat music) What's driving me? Is it the Lord and the Holy Spirit driving me? Is it fear? Is it anxiety of what might not happen or what might happen?
And so then I've got a data point that I can actually bring into my relationship with God where I'm saying, I want to talk to you about this God. There are deeper conversations to be had that allow for deeper connecting points.
And a lot of times it's around the things we just don't want to talk about. about. - All right everybody,
good evening, good morning, good midday, good morrow, good, good, your face is good. You know what I mean, just like walk around and say you know what,
my face is good. Like that's a great way just to start out your day or to end your day Gosh, I wish I could just stop and continue and try another version of this But it's so dumb that I'm gonna keep it Tim Timmons here.
Welcome to another 10 ,000 minute podcast season 3 on relationships They're 10 ,080 minutes in a week 80 of those minutes people spend in some kind of church gathering in a building or a home.
But how do we walk with Jesus and joining Him in the 10 ,000 minutes until we gather again? That's really the point. Not how do we work for God, but how do we join Him all week long? These things that we're walking through in this podcast and every podcast,
they're not for our benefit. It's like when I worry less, it's not just because I have more peace. It's for my kid's benefit. It's for everyone's benefit. around me. So this is for the flourishing of the whole community.
That's what we're doing here, people, and we're killing already. I mean, this intro, if you're not in tears, I don't, I don't know if you have a heart. Okay, season three,
we have Sarah Hagerty today. She's incredible. I loved this interview. Chris Cleveland and I got to interview her today, which you'll hear in a second. but she's a best -selling author.
She's got four books. We are diving into her most recent book, The Gift of Limitations. So guys, this is really great because all of us have stuff that we go, gosh, why does this happen?
Why have I prayed for this? And nothing freaking happens. Like, what is God doing? What does this look like? Is there more for me to be learning? There's so much. We're going to dive into that.
You're going to love it. If you guys are loving season three, so... far or if you're not still would you go and subscribe to our podcast you'll know when the next ones are coming out or make a comment only if it's good if it's bad just kind of keep it yourself yeah again go and subscribe that would be radical that's a word that I've made up also if you'd like to join the 10 ,000 minute community because this is
better done with people so either do this with some of your friends like say hey let's just try this practice every week. Friend, would you do this with me? Let's both listen to podcasts and then just let's try this practice and see how it's going and encourage each other.
And /or go to the 10 ,000 minute community on our Facebook page and we would love to walk this stuff through with you. So I'm on there, Moise on there, Chris, Chris is another one,
to be honest. But I'd love to figure out how do we practice the way of Jesus together? And... And if you want to give it a 10 ,000 minutes, please do. This is we don't have a Patreon. We have the 10 ,000 minute non -profit.
So it's a non -profit. You're getting tax write -offs, you guys. Monthly, let's go. Yeah, I was paying for all this by myself and I don't need to pay for it anymore. So I'd love for you guys to join me in this and thank you for those of you who are that is such a gift.
You can also get our free text messages and check out out the show notes below for any of that stuff. Also, if you do join us financially, we send out a newsletter that's just for you guys,
so we write special stuff and if you want to be a part of that, check that out. Okay, I hope you guys really enjoy this and at the end I will have a few bullet points and just some learnings that I am in the midst of.
So, okay you guys, giddy up. - We got Chris Cleveland here with a new mustache,
and-- - I've been working on this for a while. - It's gorgeous. - It started off as laziness, and you know, I can't grow a beard or anything. - Yeah, yeah. - This is at least two months.
(laughing) - Eight full weeks. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm not judging. - I'm letting it grow on the side, sides. Y 'all are like a study of contrast here right next to each other.
Yeah. Yeah. I'm just going to let it ride. See how it goes. I think it's awesome. Thanks, man. Yeah. You see, his hair is also very long and we're total contrast.
Is that what you meant? No, but I, well, I didn't think up top, but yes, the beard and the mustache, the length of time it might take you to grow that. We're a real pair. It's Sarah Hagerty. That's right. Yeah,
not Hagerty. Well, so I actually called myself Sarah Hagerty for the first year of my marriage until my mother -in -law corrected me. Took her that long.
I have, he didn't, he didn't care. He didn't care. Yeah. So I have a lot of grace for people who mispronounce. Yeah. Cause you did it for a long time. Cause I did it for a long time. How did she say it? Was it, well,
I don't want to get you in trouble. Yeah, it's not burning my brain. I've kind of erased that. - Okay, great, great, great, great. Yeah, she was lame about it, but she was probably wonderful. - She is, my mother -in -law is wonderful,
yeah. - You know what, she's listening right now. - But she endured me for a year mispronouncing it, so there's that guys. - That should be pretty nice. - It wouldn't have been that long in my family. - It wouldn't a week, it was a year. - Yeah. - You have a new book out called The Gift of Limitations.
I'm holding one right now. - And this is your fourth book. book. - Yeah. - So you like to write? - I love to write. - Okay. - I do. - You've always loved to write? - I love to read and you know,
readers can tend to become writers. So if you love to read, it's usually an early sign. - How many books a year do you think you read? - 23. I wish it were more and I wish I actually didn't admit that I know that number,
but I do. - My wife is a reader. - She probably reads 50, I have seven kids. - Yeah, she's in, man. - Yeah, yeah. yeah. - Wow. - Let that just drop really quick. - She got the Kindle and it helps and she's got some sort of subscription.
So she blows, she blows through. - Some sort of subscription. - But also if you, in our bedroom, like I'm a serial book buyer. - Yes, yeah. - So I'll take that book and it'll get on the stack.
Actually one of my resolutions this year is to read the stack. - Yeah, no. got about 25 books sitting. She has 150, and she blows through. She reads like 50, 60 a year.
- Oh, I wish I could meet her. She reads 50, yeah. So I think when I have less kids at home, I will be back to 50 or 60, but I have been slowly dwindling that number. - I think 20 is 20 more than I would read with seven children.
- Yes, yes. - It's completely honest. Okay, seven humans, ages ranging, and-- - Oh, that's just 20, my youngest. youngest is four. - Yeah, why not? - And we're old, y 'all. So like, I'm the oldest mom on the soccer sidelines with my middle kids,
yeah. - You're really doing it. - 33. - I'm 33. That's right. Thank you for that. - It's a good age. - 33 is old. - Okay, seven humans, you love to run.
- I do. - Yeah, so she runs too. - Which they kind of go hand in hand. If you are raising seven humans, you need to take a run from them sometime. - Yeah, right. right. Yeah, Chris is. - We're really gonna veer off if we get into running 'cause it's a whole thing.
- And you're a runner. - I love it. - Oh. - Rightly addicted. - So after this, you gotta tell me where to run here in Nashville. - Yeah. - Let's go. How many miles are you doing a week? - Oh,
I mean, I run miles like I read books. - 23, 23 weeks. - Yeah, not exactly. I mean, I'm like a three mile run. Like a three mile a day. - That's pretty good.
- No, no, no, no. - That's okay. - Three more than Tim did today. - Okay, okay. If that's a fat joke, you nailed it. I was a large child, and so he likes to really make fun of that.
- That's not true. Tim could run like a sub 15, 5K back in the day. - Yeah. - Oh, Billy? - Yeah, I was a runner. I don't run much anymore. I play pickleball now, and I've got pickleball.
elbow. I've never said that before. - Pickleball elbow? - It was like tennis elbow. - Let's Google that. Is that a thing? - I got to the gym one morning and see Tim's car there.
He's hanging out with, I don't know, Betty or somebody who's this old woman just kicking his tail. Just really, and he's got the headband. He's got the arm band. - Yeah. He's suited up,
sweating town. towel. - No, just-- - Modern age on McEnroe. - Oh, yes. - I get killed at pickleball. - By these old ladies. - Yeah, it's like-- - They got nothing but time. - It's like 70 and older.
- Yep, absolutely. - They are ninjas. These women, yeah, Betty, Nancy, Carol, and Virginia really know how to pickle me sideways is what I was.
- That's my buddy and I, we have matching. a matching gear now. Yeah, I got in for a game Yeah, you did rightly got whooped. Yeah. So if you guys want to come running come run on the pickleball court Yeah,
I actually would consider myself to be a good pickleball player I beat my son who is 16. Hopefully he won't hear this Play that down And I was in a tournament I got in second place.
You did it see but have you even done a tournament? - What are you doing? - Well, I mean, to which my son said, "Were there two teams in the tournament?" - And so then you beat him. - So I would consider myself good,
but I don't play with like real pickleball players. - Yeah, yeah. Oh, thanks for pointing at me. - Yeah. - That meant a lot to me. - Real pickleball players. - Yeah, yeah. You see that, Chris? - I've witnessed it firsthand. - You totally have. - Listen.
- It's a little embarrassing. He's just run like 800 ,000 miles and he walks in the gym and I'm like, you know, I've got my retainers on, my mouth guard on, my wristband. - It's just ankle braces and all.
- Totally, let's go. - Totally, anywho, okay. You, Sarah, Hagerty. Okay, so give us a little bit of your background just to give us some context of why you're writing these things.
You have seven little humans to big humans. You're married for how many years? - 23 years. - Okay. - Yeah, I've got seven. humans. My husband and I had a long stretch of infertility when we were newly married for 10,
12, 13 years. We had always wanted to adopt independent of that. We thought we'd adopt after we had biological children, but we went ahead and adopted during that time. We adopted two from Ethiopia, then two from Uganda.
So like we went forever without kids and then had four kids in two years. - Eight or nine years with no kids? Is that what you said? - Eight or nine years, yeah. that's right. So then after that, a couple of years later,
had a bunch of surprise pregnancies, like up until like I'm 42 and we've given all the baby gear away. - Oh my gosh. - Which a friend said, you know, do you know that, like never give the baby gear away?
He's like, oh yeah, we keep it in our attic forever. - Keep it stored just in case. You said you had a bunch of pregnancies. - I had a miscarriage, but then three surprise pregnant. I mean, after 12, 13 years of infertility.
infertility, pregnant four times in a row, wild, into my 40s. And I loved to write. So somewhere in the margins, I often say like a moonlight as a writer. I love to read, I love to write,
I love words. And so the crazy that happens in my home during the day when it's totally loud, I work out in the quiet of writing. - Yeah, I was listening to something that you were doing.
I think it was on your last book. You were going through how we're seen by God. Is that right? - Yeah, unseen, well it was two books ago, but yeah, my book, Unseen, the gift of being hidden in a world that loves to be noticed,
the subtitle kind of tells the book. - Yeah, that was beautiful. And part of it, there are two things that I loved just from, it was a YouTube, it was like an hour long message that you gave. - Oh, okay. - I thought it was terrible.
(laughing) But, anywho, no. - Oh, those are notes? - Yeah, these are notes, and I've got, yeah, I didn't like your arm. arm movement. That's right. I've got extensive notes for you. You had talked about just going years without being able to have kids.
It was a Mother's Day message. Oh, that's right. Yep. You're just talking about grief and sorrow and how to walk through that stuff, which we talk a lot about on here, because that's just life.
And we've all experienced we don't want to admit it, but it really is life. Right. Yeah. You look around you. Everybody has some measure of grief. grief that they're walking through. - Yeah. - You just don't want to name it. - Yeah. I've pushed past the grief and just tried to go grateful,
which is a part of it, which is beautiful, but I kind of, I missed the grief part. - Oh, I get that. - And I'm trying to figure that out now, which is good. So it was beautiful. The other thing you were talking about, it was really,
it was shaping to me. I was just listening to it. You were saying, how does God see you in these hard moments? moments? And then it was like, okay, I've heard that before, but then you changed it up and you said,
what's his face look like? - Yeah, 'cause that concept has just resonated with me. I mean, you know, we all get real comfortable with Christianese and language. And so sometimes I think if there's a new way of hearing it,
it's like, oh, but he has a face, like a face and am I worst? most unproductive or unsuccessful minutes? Like what's the lines on his face look like?
- Yeah, that's so profound. I wanna think more about that. Even as a practice in the future, like that kind of practice of what does God's face look like towards you in this moment when I'm having a hard time or when I'm mad at somebody or done something stupid.
- Right. this face look like? Which dictates so much of how then we see God. I mean, that's really what we believe to be true about God is actually how we probably see his face. - Yeah, right. I mean, how many cues are we giving our kids in a day of how we feel about them based on just our facial expressions?
- Right. Yeah, maybe let's not go there. 'Cause you know what I mean? - I have teenagers, so they tell me. - Just back to God. Just back to God. Okay, so you wrote a new book called "The Gift of" and it's called "The Gift of" - Finding Beauty in Your Boundaries." Give us a little background on this.
Well, I think when I started to see a common thread in my life across different seasons, that's when I start to pay attention. You know, a lot of times we just go, "Ah, surely this is my circumstances." Yeah,
yeah. But when you start to see similar responses across different seasons, then you go, "Oh, the landscapes change, the responses are the same." There's something to pay attention to." So here I was in my infertility for a long stretch,
going, "My body is limiting me from what I want. My body is not doing what it's supposed to do." And then fast forward, and we grew our family fast as lightning speed.
All of a sudden, to have this family I've been desiring, and I'm going, "This family is limiting me from what I want." want. You know, how do I throw tantrums in both seasons?
And so I started to really go, there's a theme here. And then I look around me at my friends and my friends with two kids, five years apart, it doesn't need to be you have seven kids and kids who've been through trauma.
So there's a lot of needs. Everybody is really wanting to be overcomers 'cause that's kind of what we've believed where to be overcomers, overcoming our trauma.
limits. And I started to think, huh, what if these limits actually were intended by God? The boundary lines for me have fallen in pleasant places. So I'm 16. You know,
we see that crocheted on our grandma's wall, but like that's actually really hard -lived to believe that. - That brings up a lot of questions that we can all agree or disagree on,
but does that mean that God doesn't believe it? these things? Is he? - Well, that's a deep one. - I know. I mean, these are the small questions that I have in life. - I know, I don't know,
but he is allowing it, right? That's the safe answer we all give. He's allowing it. So if he's allowing it and I'm working like crazy to overcome this limit, could it be that I'm spending untold amounts of energy on something I'm not actually meant to over?
in this moment, but maybe submit to, succumb, surrender to, receive. - Yeah, learn from. - Yeah, right, right. - Almost bless, I mean,
one of my friends years ago was talking about how do we bless the crappy things that have gone on? - Oh, so hard. - It's like that, and he would talk about certain seasons and saying,
I am learning to really bless that season. season as it was something that has made me more whole. You know, through walking with Jesus, I've become more whole and I can bless that moment instead of damning that moment.
- Yeah, that's good. Which I think of is maybe easier after the fact. - Oh my gosh. - Right, like we see it, but like when you're in it. - Yeah. - It wants to do that. - Yeah. - It's almost like the first step of AA or something,
right? - Yeah. - Yeah. things that I cannot change. - Which I write about that a lot in the book, this notion of, okay, we don't even name how much we fight against our limits,
like you with your pickleball elbow, like what are you, you're-- - Thank you, I feel so seen. - Like you're, I don't know that you're actually doing physical therapy, but you're probably googling it, figuring out what you can do and you know.
- I am today, yeah, now I am, yeah. (laughing) (laughing) - Seems the right age, I don't know. - That is a word from the archives, owingment. - Thank you, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah, moist. Okay, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. Continue. - Yes, so-- - Yeah, so my pickleball bow. - Right, so, you know, we just naturally-- - And your ability to say that word.
(laughing) - Is that, could you even Google that? - Playboy, playboy, playboy, I can't even do it. By the way, I'm so sorry. We figured out another word, my family. (laughing) and I, this could be one of the crowning jewels of my life.
- Okay. - Toy boat is like everybody knows that one. What about dish soap? - Dish soap? - Yeah, you really gotta stop and think about it. - I'm not gonna cast it, it's not one of those things.
- Dish soap, dish, that is very hard. - See, you couldn't even do it. - Who figured that out? - My wife and I, and my kids, we said it. I'm like, ooh, that's funny. You know, it's like Francisco, I like, you know what? (laughing) Gaps like, dude.
so." Anyways, back to things that matter. Things like that, I'm looking at. We just naturally, like, we, if there's a limit, we work to overcome it. And we're in a world that is,
we optimize everything, right? So anything that's challenging, there's got to be a hack. Right. So true. And we take that into our spiritual lives too, and really, like, completely overlook that Jesus himself was limited at Godly.
that God limited himself. Like that was part of actually the salvation of all of mankind was the limitation of God putting himself in a human frame. And so for us,
could there be limitations that God is allowing to shape, to change, to grow us? And we're just fixed on overcoming because that's just what we do. We find hacks.
How do you discern? discern between the things that we should accept and the things that we should attempt to overcome? The thing that comes up,
and it may not be the right thing, but I think of people with a diagnosis or whatever, and it's like, "Well, I'll just accept it and let God figure it out." I've known people who've died of cancer because they thought,
"Well, God will cure me." And so where's the balance of saying, well, actually, there's some things I can do about this situation, you know,
and there's some things I can't. How do we decipher that? That's a good question. I think you have to run the course and pay attention to yourself. We're all growing and understanding ourselves,
right? And so there is a voice inside of like an awareness inside of me that I keep pushing this line. and it's not moving. Or to the contrast,
I'm scared to death of having hope. So I'm just gonna accept it on the front end and receive this diagnosis. I think all of us are growing and need to grow in understanding what's happening in our interior world enough to notice,
oh, this is actually fear that's making me accept this. Or this is actually fear that's making me keep pushing this thing. as if it's gonna happen and maybe I'm missing all the warning signs that I should probably like let it go.
- Am I hearing you right or am I just making this up which both could be great. But it's almost what's the motivation behind it? - Absolutely, yeah. Why am I pushing this limit?
Like why am I trying to overcome here? What is it that I am so determined on? My life will be happy. I mean, I think of a recent. thing in my life that something I've been praying for that's good and godly and so right I have to be vague about it because it's super personal good and godly and so right.
And so I spend years Knocking on the doors of heaven. God will you move this? Yeah, and Over time I start to notice like I'm actually creating more anxiety for myself by knocking on the doors of heaven I'm calling it intercession.
Wow girl. Yeah, and but underneath it all I I really don't want to accept my life without this thing. - Yeah. - And so, you know, years, counseling, friends in your life,
your spouse going, "Baby, you should let this go." - I'm sure like writing books is similar to writing songs in some way. And I'm sure you've got friends that are New York Times bestsellers or I don't know what your version of.
of of hitting it is. For us there's always this like carrot of oh I know so and so who did it and we're we're close like we've written plenty of songs together or whatever it is I'm there just hasn't happened and you keep pushing and you keep pressing and there is a point of like where that can be obsessive and that limit or seemingly like huge obstacle or limit in front of you can be bad but then there's a
moment when it like works and so I'm still kind of in that thing it's like well how do you how do you know because I think I've seen people where I'm like it's just not gonna happen yeah you know um but when you're in it and you're like no but it really could it really could." How do we navigate that when the possibility seems so close to kind of breakthrough through something like that?
- That's such a good question. I mean, and could it be a paradox also that you could both be pushing too hard one day and the next day not pushing hard enough? I mean, I think it comes down to the topic of relationships.
Our relationship with God, like that conversation with God. about those kinds of things. You know, I think we talk high level, I don't know about y 'all, but I can talk high level to God about bigger things in my life.
It gets a little more uncomfortable when I'm like sitting with this thing that isn't moving and I'm pushing, pushing, pushing and going, okay, Lord, I think underneath this,
I might be afraid. And this actually might be something you want me to bring to you this year. fear. And not a name it and claim it, fear be gone, but like I'm gonna actually sit with this fear and sit with you and wonder about how you see me in this moment when I'm like totally afraid.
'Cause actually I've spent three years interceding for something that I'm totally afraid of won't happen. And there might be other times where he says go for it, run the fastest you can. So a story I tell in the book about rent.
running that I think in the physical, it gave me this picture of what we do with our limits in the spiritual, I trained for a race. This was much, much younger. I have long peaked,
I could not do this now. But I trained for a race, it was a local race. It wasn't registering anywhere, but I had placed the year before. And so I thought I could win it.
And based on my times, I actually really did. could based on the times from the year before. So I got a coach who was a friend. She coached me all summer long and I trained to win this race, the women's race. And the summer was unusually cool in Charlottesville.
So I had run in 75 degree temps, race day, it's 85 degrees, which 10 degrees makes a huge difference. We line up and I'm looking at all the years past,
race time. times when I'm thinking I can win this. We line up and as we're at the starting line, I realized there's a couple of Olympic trailers who decided to jump in on this race.
Like there's no way I'm gonna win this race, right? But like I have my splits on my hand. You know, you write your times and I've been trained all summer. I'm ignoring that it's 85 degrees. I'm still gonna win this race.
- Yeah. - So we start and I am... hell bent on my splits. And so much so that I have a heat stroke. Oh gosh.
And a heat stroke, you get all sorts of warning signs. Your body, the bells are going off. Like stop now. I mean, I started getting confused. I was asking. I mean, I'm at the front of the pack,
not in front of these trailers, but I'm asking someone on the sidelines where the finish is. It's just an up and back. Like I got got all the warning signs that you cannot keep trying to win this race and my body just collapsed.
My husband carried me across the finish line to which they then disqualified me. Wasn't that romantic, but I was disqualified. They asked me to give back my gift because you can't have somebody carry you across the finish line.
But I think in the spiritual or in everyday life, we do that where we like ignore where all the work is done. ways that God might be trying to reach us very naturally to say,
"This might not be for you for right now." The whisper of our spouse in our ear, our friends going, "You know what? "God might come in another way." And we push,
and we push, and we, like God's giving us all sorts of cues. You know, we have a one -dimensional relationship with God a lot of times. I'm speaking for myself. - Is this more about us limiting God,
or is this about us limiting God? the limits that God has just in our lives or that just is true about our lives? I think us limiting God is an important conversation but I think the concept here that I'm talking about is us accepting our limitations.
Acceptance is huge but as believers who are wired to take on the world and who maybe have little self -awareness that some of that taking on the world is self -driven Right.
I mean, that's so Western. I mean, that is very Western. It's like everything that we have is American dream and American dream is like the push for these things to happen.
I mean, it's like, no, let's shatter the limitations. I mean, that's every Gatorade Nike commercial out there is shattering limitations. We put a couple Bible verses on it and all of a sudden it's biblical. Totally.
Okay. So just for fun, what kind of push do you get from the Christian community on this? - Relationally, in my friendships, I straddle lots of different streams in the body of Christ,
and I think in maybe more of the charismatic stream, accepting our limits can feel like resignation. - Right, not enough faith.
- Not enough faith. - Lean in, we've been told we can do this. - And I honestly, with my infertility, I felt that pretty strongly. And I like believe the Holy Spirit still moves and speaks, I'm not a cessationist.
But with my infertility, when I ventured into going, if this is my story, I'm gonna receive it. After years of praying for God to heal my body,
I had people pretty regularly saying, don't give up faith, like don't lose your faith here. So I think there can be, I mean, on the flip side, at times when I prayed for healing,
I had other friends go in, but this is what God gave you, you know, right? I like something you said earlier about kind of getting down to like being afraid, like what's the core?
What's the core things here? So by accepting a limitation or not, who do I actually believe I am? And who do I actually believe God is?
if this thing does or doesn't work out? And this is something we talk about all the time and I wonder if we're just not trusting either Party very well,
you know, like ourselves or God when we're trying to control that I don't know. There's been instances in my life like when I felt the most free It's been one when I've been able to let things go.
They're out of my control, right? And whether that's a limit or whatever it is, you can define it differently. But when I can put a song to radio and then I don't care, like, because I've done my part,
or, you know, put your version in there of whatever it is, when you've done your thing, and then it's out of your hands, when you learn to accept whatever comes next to me,
that's the most freedom I've ever felt in life. When you're trying to control it, it feels like a prison cell. I don't know, and these are just things running through my head.
- Yeah, that thing that I mentioned that I'd prayed for for years, like, and it's good and it's godly and it's right, of course you want this for my life. Moving, verging into accepting that it wasn't changing and it wasn't gonna move.
Those first few months after just really consciously going, I'm letting this go, I might even, stop praying that this changes just for my own self to see what that feels like.
Those first few months, I told my husband, I feel like a new believer, Matthew 18, my yoke is easy, or Matthew 11, 18, that my yoke is easy, my burden is like,
I just felt like I don't have to carry this anymore. But I thought I had to. - Right, right. - And but underneath it all was really a fear of what's my life gonna be like if this thing doesn't happen.
I'm scared out of my mind, and then actually walking over, crossing the Rubicon into, this isn't gonna happen, and I'm gonna be okay. Felt so liberating.
- Yeah, one of my heroes talks about contentment underneath surrender. Like that being the base of finding contentment. - Like foundation of-- - Even in, like, my thing was that surrender was just this huge gift.
Like if we can be surrendering to the way of the kingdom and the will of the kingdom and all that stuff, then that's our whole role is to just find and be surrendered to these limitations,
if you will. And his thing was like, man, that's so good, but you can surrender, but still be pissed about it. And his thing was, I think what, what of contentment is even under that? Because you can tell and I'm just thinking about that within your concept of limitations,
contentment, you were finding contentment in those moments, going God's at work, I don't know how it's all working, I don't know how he's gonna do this, but I'm just, I can find contentment in this. And you can't have contentment without surrender,
but you can surrender without contentment. - Yeah, it's almost like contentment is a byproduct. - Yeah. - And surrender is action. - Yeah. - So you could go through the motions of surrender without the byproduct of contentment.
- Yeah. So how does that work within limitations? - Ooh. I mean, in some ways, I think like, I don't know, do y 'all feel this? Like the older I get, the more I'm like, it's okay to say life is happening to me,
meaning God is moving in the circumstances around me. I'm on a conveyor, I mean, this makes it sterile, but like I'm on a conveyor belt where I am going somewhere and God is using circumstances to shape and for me.
And perhaps I have less of a, I've got to make this happen role than I thought I did. Yeah, right. And so there's a releasing of I am gonna,
you know, I talk about in the book, I want to be watchful. of what God is doing versus vigilantly overloading my life.
And that feels way more freeing that I'm gonna wake up today and be watchful. What are you doing versus vigilant? Like, there's things gotta happen. - Right. And that's curiosity.
- Absolutely. That is, that's it. Watchfulness, curiosity. - Beautiful divine curiosity posture. - Yeah. - Yeah. accepting this stuff. I love that. So far I've really loved and I've been encouraged and challenged and I think part of our practice will be something about being curious about what's actually going on in our lives.
Like what are the limitations? And then what's it look like to be curious with God in those areas? - Absolutely, yes, yes. - Okay, so is there a way to write down limitations? Is there a way to find those and write those down?
How would you go about doing that? - I think in a given day, notice when you're picking up your phone more often, when you're reaching for the fridge, when you're snapping at your kids or your spouse, that's the beginning of the breadcrumb trail.
Back to, okay, so before that, I was feeling something. And typically, that something is tied to a limitation, not always,
but typically it is. (upbeat music) So I just observe my day and I go, well, I picked up my phone and scrolled for this amount of time. You know, I look back and I go,
oh, my house was a mess. And I'm again, sewing into that narrative, like when am I ever gonna get it together? Like my kids, my life is chaos. Okay,
underneath that is, I am feeling very limited by what's in front of me. So. - So there's a limitation there. Something else is being revealed that would be good for us for me to look at and be curious about.
The other thing I loved was just the idea of motivation. Like what's the motivation under the thing? Bob Goff's always saying, what's the thing under the thing? And yeah, that's helpful for me to look at these things and go,
gosh, some things I need to push back on and like work hard or four, like my serve in pickleball. - I need to work hard. What? What are you guys going to say? Maybe. But what's the motivation behind that?
And is that a how would you say what I'm trying to say right now? What's driving you? And really when you identify what's driving you, I think we have the next question answered. Like what do I do with that?
Do I need it? What's driving me? Is it the Lord and the Holy Spirit driving me? Is it fear? Is it anxiety of what might not happen or what might happen? And so then I've got a data point that I can actually bring into my relationship with God,
where I'm saying, "I want to talk to you about this, God. I want to be raw with you." I mean, I just, back to us being semi -one -dimensional in our relationship with God, there are deeper conversations to be had that allow for deeper connecting points.
And a lot of times it's around the things we just don't want to talk about. praying for these things,
that is not the point here. But except what is true, not just today, but what has been true for a while. And on the other side, we understand what we are truly wanting. The thing underneath the thing.
Sarah shared that her true prayer is for peace. Can I be curious enough to believe that God will bless me, make me whole, complete me with peace in a different way?
So let's pause and reflect on what you've been praying for lately. Just what have you been praying for? What is it that you've been truly asking God to give you?
Again, we're just looking at this like it's in a glass box in front of us, all the different shapes and forms and all the different angles. What have you been asking God for lately?
What drives that prayer? And can you voice that to God in this moment trusting that our true desires are always met by God just in ways we sometimes don't expect?
Let's just be curious about our prayers. So our practice this week is praying vulnerable prayers. Let's just be curious about our prayers. Would there be a daily practice that you would do that would help you with this idea of limitations,
seeing them as gifts? I think it's simple pause. We want 30 minutes or 40 seconds. minutes to unpack this or we want to sit in a counselor's chair. There's something powerful about just seeing that a minute or three or four is significant.
And a lot of times we're reacting to our life instead of deeply responding to it. And I think as simple as going, you know what, I'm going to give three minutes today. When I start to notice myself snappy,
angry, cynical, grumpy, three minutes to sit and go. go, what limit am I responding to? And I mean, the other part of it, we haven't gotten into this,
but just grieving that, like being able to give that space to, you know, some of these limits we wanna shame ourselves, like I just gotta get over that, I want my music to do this, or I want my book to be a New York Times bestseller.
No, actually I might wanna sit and grieve, like I really desire this and I can't get it. And God, you know, you care about that. Makes me think that there's got to be a thousand limitations that hit us differently every day,
too. It's not always big stuff. It's not always I need my career to go this way or I need this huge thing. But I had this expectation of X, Y and Z. I think about my kids. They're like so focused about if they think something's going to happen and then it doesn't,
the world falls apart, right? And. And, um, and they're just tiny versions of me, you know, um, so when I think something's going to happen and it doesn't work out my way, whether I've made the whole plan up in my head and not even told anybody,
I feel like my day is full of those little, I was going to take a shower before I got here, but the cleaners came early and you know, it didn't work out because they were in the bathroom,
they were clean in the shower. Your wife cares more about a clean shower. shower than a clean you. - So I was like, well, okay, you know, there's a thousand different versions of those like limitations,
those things that we can't control throughout the day. So it'd be interesting to be able to kind of take stock in that as I'm thinking through my days, be like, okay, well that didn't work out how I thought,
how can I respond to that? Like even in the minuscule things. And that's probably the places that were living most of our life. - Death by a thousand paper cuts. - Right, being cut off is a limitation.
I didn't get to be in that spot faster. I mean, there's so many all day long if we're more aware of those things and then walking with Jesus in the midst of those things,
being curious with him, that's, I love it. That's beautiful, thank you. Well done. Okay, we're gonna do 10 ,000 thoughts really quick. (upbeat music) This is what we like to call in the ministry speed round.
- Is that a ministerial term? - Yes, it is. It is, it's in the pickleball ministry. - Oh. - Yeah, pickleball. - You know, there's gonna have to be a few of those at this point. You all have uniforms?
- No, but Mike and I, we've got matching headbands. And it's a little embarrassing, 'cause I say-- - Both are bald. - I just want you guys to get a-- good view of what I had back. - But I say pickle me sideways all the time and it's not supposed to be inappropriate.
It's just kind of a dumb thing that I say about anything which again, nobody needs to respect me after that. But I got us, it says pickle me on our headbeds and then I got us wristbands and say PMS.
Pickle me sideways. So I think that was really funny. - So I love going out with Betty. - Yeah, Betty, Betty, Betty. - A lot of curiosity. curiosity. - Betty loves those? We're trying to limit their ability to kill us.
You know what I mean? Just everyone, so I just PMS, I just put it in the air. - Keep her laughing. - Yeah, that's, all right. Anywho, that's about it. 10 ,000 thoughts, that was five of them.
Okay, so this is just speed round, go as quick as you need to. Okay, childhood nickname. And if it's bring up trauma, just say pass. - Just Sarah, no nickname. Isn't that sad y 'all? - Oh. actually, Welter,
let's do that. - Because that was your last name? - Was that your last name? - Sometimes, Swelter. - Swelter. - There you go, now that's what we're looking for. I mean, it's like, Swelter, did that hurt feelings?
- Oh no, that's fine. - That's how that race felt. - That's fine when you're a teenage girl. - Sweltering. - Favorite musician band growing up? - Brian Adams.
- Okay. - Not really, I don't know. You just-- - That's the first thing that popped in your head. What's Brian Adams song? - I will be right here waiting for you.
- Can you sing that please? - No, that's-- - No, that's Richard Marks. - It's Richard Marks. Can I just say Richard Marks then? Right, you're waiting, 'cause I'd love to think that. I've been waiting for this moment. - Yeah,
you do have a Richard Marks story. - I do. - Yeah, we'll save that. - It's a big deal. Um, um, it was on the pickleball court Okay, I love that you said a different song than the guy there's your favorite.
That's perfect. That's gorgeous. Okay pet peeve When kids put their fingers on the glass Anywhere just fingers on glass. How quickly do you clean that up?
Oh great follow -up question Chris So sign of my maturity is I have intentionally waited. - Have you? - Uh -huh, I do. - Do you, are you saying? - It feels like I am telling myself I'm gonna be okay.
- Okay, are you stewing? - No, I'm noticing myself. You guys, this is 46. I'm going, I'm gonna be okay. - You're so young, you're so young. - You're doing great.
- Thank you. - Oh, gosh. So what's the, I just wanna know your process now. I'm off my. little. - Like, I mean, I just saw him yesterday or two days ago before I left and I went, I'm going to leave those there 'cause I'm going to be okay.
- How are you in vehicles? Do you put your feet up on the dash? - It's so gross. No, I mean, if I have socks on maybe, but not real. I mean. - I've got toe prints in my cars.
- From you? - No. From my speaking wife. - Me too. (laughing) - It's just a look to the right, it's toes. on my windshield. - She's really one of her 50 books and toes up.
- Just toes out. - Yeah. - My daughter wrote Anna on the inside of my truck window, just Anna with her finger, with her juicy, moist, nasty finger. And it's still there and it's been a while and I just,
I'm so mad because I don't have something proper to clean it with. Anyways. - I also realized I avoid it. Like I walked by my kid's bathroom the other day. It's like I haven't been in there in a while. (laughing) I don't want to know what's in there.
- Better than I know. - But maturity, Chris, is sitting across from her. - That's right, that's what I call it. - 'Cause she's saying her intention - I'm almost there. - Move is looking at it going, - I'm gonna be okay. - I'm gonna be okay. And we're like,
you know-- - I'm gonna ignore. - Yeah, yeah. - That's where I'm at. - Okay, something that you are currently rethinking, seeing in a new way. - Ooh, the expression of Christianity in the church. - Ooh, okay,
cool. That'll be our next podcast. That's two hours. - You should get that in my face. My reaction was great for that one. - Yes. Okay, Hidden Talent. - Pickleball.
So if we hadn't had this conversation, I mean, it's fresh. It's like, you know, why is Brian Adams or Richard Marks on my mind? I don't know. - All right, all right. I could only imagine Brian Adams in some cool songs.
- Oh, wow. - Yeah, yeah. Okay, Pickleball. - I mean, mean, we've been talking about it, but I actually am not bad. - Next time you come to town. - But if you put me on the court with Betty, she'd kill me,
so it's maybe not a hidden talent. I live in the Midwest, we're not playing Pickleball every day. You know, Mike-- - When you come to town again, you let me know, 'cause we play a lot. - But I've just told you it's my hidden talent, and so now there's pressure. - We're gonna bring that into the light.
- Yeah. - You know what I mean? - You might discover that I'm a liar. - Well, that's okay. You'll run, you'll kill me, we'll play that. Guilty pleasure. I'm stuck.
Wow guilty pleasure Yeah, I have seven kids. There's like not a lot of that a lot of alone time. I don't know right. I Don't even know what I'd say to that Yeah,
maybe give me some ideas. What would you say to guilty pleasure fruit snacks? That's so true. I love them Yes, kind of the reason I run. It's an addiction for him little fruit snacks - So I don't have many.
- Is there a food that you go, oh my gosh, I do. - Y 'all, I'm eating like the most clean diet these days. Don't ask me, yeah, that's embarrassing. - Run more miles, eat anything you want. - No,
I have Lyme disease, so I have to. - Oh no. Way to bring that up, Chris. - Yeah, well, sorry. - I'm so sorry, bro. - There's that. - I'm not trying to keep the weight off.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Feel good. - Yeah. Yeah Okay, well with that I think I basically watched all those you want to try any one I know I'd say pet peeve again,
and it would be people Big mustaches is it big it's it grew while we were sitting here.
That's the thing I just kept thinking there is Gotta be be moisture in your base Oh my gosh, thank you for using that word in an appropriate way To end this podcast Okay,
here's a little recap and just things that I am learning through this podcast and just specifically from this episode So it's time to get curious about the things we find ourselves praying for or even possibly push it up against.
What are my current prayers truly asking for? Is it peace, joy, comfort, healing? Let's just get curious about the motive of our prayers. I think that is so important that I would get curious about the motive of my prayers.
I'm not shaming myself or shaming anybody else. I'm just being curious about the motives underneath my prayers. So this week's practice, you guys. do this with somebody else.
I can't stress how important this is to do this with other people. So whether it's on our Facebook page or just a friend, would you just call somebody and say, "Hey, would you help me and do this with me?" So this week's practice is pray vulnerable prayers.
Pray like God can hold it all and let's be curious about the motivations behind our prayers, even that we would pray with each other or pray with each other. list out a few things that we're praying for and with a friend say,
"Okay, will you help me just think through some of the motives that are underneath this?" Just to be curious. Not to change it all up, but just to be curious. And then would you just let us know how this practice is going for you in our Facebook group?
So go to the Facebooks and look up 10 ,000 Minutes, 10K Minutes. The link is also in the show notes below or wherever above, below, to the side. you get it. I mean,
let's practice this as a community. I would love to hear from you and I would love to jump in and be encouraged with you. So thanks you guys for listening. Subscribe to the podcast, share it with a friend that you're doing this with.
And again, if you want the free, weekly encouraging text message, just text the number of 59925. 59925. Yeah, 59925.
I do that every time. but it's the only way that I can remember it. Five, nine, nine, two, five. Five, nine, nine, two, five, yeah. And then put 10K, one, zero, K in the subject where you'd write the content.
So five, nine, nine, two, five. Okay, you guys love you. Grateful for you. Thank you for jumping in this with us. (upbeat music) වවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවවව